Nickel Waltham.

[John Pavlik]

I had an unexpected ebay, or is it Fleabay, find. I would like to know if anyone can tell how many Mdl 1879 Waltham key winds had nickel plates or nickel plated plates. This watch is a P.S. Bartlett #1666340 and appears, as I have not removed the dial as yet, to be 15 jewels. Any help would be greatly appreciated...

John

 

[John Pavlik]

I had an unexpected ebay, or is it Fleabay, find. I would like to know if anyone can tell how many Mdl 1879 Waltham key winds had nickel plates or nickel plated plates. This watch is a P.S. Bartlett #1666340 and appears, as I have not removed the dial as yet, to be 15 jewels. Any help would be greatly appreciated...

John

 

[jim88]

fuseez, check the watch diagrams to see if your watch is a model 77 or 79. They are similar but different. The Waltham book lists that ser. no. as a model 77 PSB. In Vol. 1 American Pocket Watches I see only one listing for both M77 and M79 in nickel/keywind. It is the Wm. Ellery M77, HN77K, unadjusted. The quantity is blank which means it was part of the group just above that listing which is the same watch in gilt. That watch lists 131,037 as quantity made, so part of that group is nickel. I don't see any others including PSB that are keywind/nickel. Those older models are nice in nickel and you have an unlisted one at that. More than likely a number of them were made that way but they just didn't get listed. Jim.

 

[John Pavlik]

Hi Jim,
Here is what else I can tell you. I checked the movement again and I am under the impression that the difference between a 77 and 79 is that the barrel bridge is different. The point in the middle of the curve. The 2nd thing is that 77's have 1 case screw and the 79 has 2 case screws. This watch has both of the 79 features. I do have 1 other nickel plate and it is an Ellery Mdl, and I believe it only has 11 jewels. I will have to look at that serial number later...This watch also appears to be orginal, very clean, no other case screw marks. You know, you can just tell on some of these..Its tarnished so much it looks gun metal but is marked Sterling...

John

 

[jim88]

fuseez, the main difference between M77 and M79 will be the placement of the train wheels in relation to the balance cock and balanace wheel. Look at the back of the movement with the edge of the bal. cock towards you (down) and the bal. wheel is away from you (up). On an M77 the train wheels, as indicated by jewels or pivot holes, will be to the right of the bal. wheel. On an M79, the train wheels will be above the bal. wheel. Check it out. Let me know what you've got. Jim.

 

[Tom Huber]

Jim, Thanks for the explanation on the difference between the model 77 & 79. I had always ben a little confused. I have noted that the pix of the movements differ between Shugart's book and Ehrhardt's book. in Shugart's book the Model 77 has a barrell bridge that resembles a model 83 (does not have the little point in the middle), where in Ehrhardt's book it shows the same barrel bridge with the train wheel placement as you have stated. I have a PS Bartlett KW, 11J, SN1,771,754. Up until this discussion, I had thought it was a model 79, but it has the train placement for the model 77. What does your waltham SN list say about this SN 1,771,754? Tom

 

[John Pavlik]

Hi Jim,
I checked with your instructions, very clear guidiance, and the P.S. Bartlett is a Mdl 77. I also checked the other nickel movement that I have an it is also a Mdl 77. That serial number is 2192684 and is 11 jewel,Wm Ellery with the jeweling pressed in as opposed to the Bartlett having screwed in sets. Very different demaskeening style on both of these. The P.S. Bartlett has a checkerboard and the balance cock is included in the patttern. The Wm Ellery has straight line and the Balance cock is different...Is there any reference that will tell How many keywinds were made of nickel??

Thanks
John

 

[Tom McIntyre]

The Waltham handwritten records have a number of runs marked with a large script N that, I believe, means nickel plates.

The handwritten records do not include the model year, so one has to be a little careful in reading them. The marking appears first in the book at 1,509,001 to 1,510,000 that was produced April through July in 1881. This was a run of P.S. Bartlett. The gray book lumps this run together with many others as 1879 model mixed PSB and Wm Ellery.

The last run with the script N notation is 2,971,001 to 2,972,000 and is a Home grade 7J run. This run is listed in the gray book as 1877 model.

At a rough guess about 10% of the runs in that range (all models and grades) have the script N. After that the word nickel is written on an angle in the "jeweling" column.

The book I am using has the serial numbers from 1,500,001 to 7,555,000. It begins where the early list reprinted by HOA Press leaves off. A copy is available in the Charles River Museum in Waltham.

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Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapter 174
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