Nice Grande Sonnerie find

Jmeechie

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Hi All,

Was looking through the local ads the other day and came across this nice clock for a song I couldn’t pass on! The gentleman I bought it from told me “good luck!” when I bought it and wished me luck on getting it running as no one else could. Well, after a quick examination of the movement I found someone’s solder work on the strike hammer shaft and on a chime recoil spring & mount on the front plate. I set up the movement on my test stand and after setting it in beat, it started running. It was running very sluggish and, I quote, “oddly” and would stop occasionally? Well, with some more inspection I noticed the fork at a very odd, slanted angle with the pallets barely touching the escape teeth. I pulled the fork out to have a look and found something unexpected! Check out the picture and see if you can find the problem!

Question, does anyone know the maker of these movements? First time I’ve seen this style of bridge on the back plate? No name, just every part serial numbered! Nice quality work, that’s for sure!
Any suggestions on getting the dial refinished, looks like someone did a Comet cleaning and someone tried to fix with repainting the numbers.

Cheers,
James

72167A4F-643D-4C7A-A8AD-B26629ACBB48.jpeg 6BBFF68F-E15B-451C-B4C1-B3E170208751.jpeg 2DCFB525-E564-4BD9-B91A-FDFAD9666B04.jpeg 743840FF-D73D-4A81-997D-E7E3B41A73C8.jpeg 04E72328-4B74-4CAE-8FB9-EED7FC27067D.jpeg EA4D7A68-F7FD-45F2-88C6-ABB20F3D7A4C.jpeg 7028D7AD-CD58-4601-AB1D-A66F18226D14.jpeg
 

JimmyOz

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The pallets are not the same, maybe the left one has been replaced? I like how the screws are dressed on the back plate, nice job.
 
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Wayne A

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Pallet on the left is flipped and curved outward.
 

Jmeechie

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Yes, the pallet on the left, exit, was in backwards, and somehow it ran! I’ve already pulled switched it around and they’re actually a match! The one does look bigger but once I pulled and measured them they matched!
 
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Jmeechie

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I like the case. Is there something missing from the center of the dial?

Tom
It doesn’t appear to have had anything in the centre portion of the dial but it’s tough to tell. Will need to do more research. Yes I like the clean line of the case, arts and crafts style, and was surprised to see a lock and key on the door.
If I could nail down the maker, it kind of looking like Franke and Gronemann but I’m no positive.
 

Jmeechie

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Thanks Tatyana,
Looks like a match! 58263 is my serial number and mine is a 1/4 strike bim bam. So if I’m understanding what you’re saying and what I’ve read so far, this clock and yours were produced after the breakup of F&G?
 

Tatyana

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Thanks Tatyana,
Looks like a match! 58263 is my serial number and mine is a 1/4 strike bim bam. So if I’m understanding what you’re saying and what I’ve read so far, this clock and yours were produced after the breakup of F&G?
Yes.
The rod Gong and the art Nouveau-style case speak of the early 20th century, and the Franke & Gronemann collaboration ended in the late 1890s.
 
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Uhralt

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I like the brass center dial from a distance, but up close, the full white dial looks better.

Tom
I believe the white enamel center insert is missing. The copper(?) center looks somewhat rough and also too far in the back of the dial.

Uhralt
 

jmclaugh

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I believe the white enamel center insert is missing. The copper(?) center looks somewhat rough and also too far in the back of the dial.

Uhralt
So do I, there is a faint pretty original decoration around the minute numbering on the dial so I can't see why they'd bother with that and leave the centre looking like that. I'd say it is two piece dial and a sibling is missing.
 

Jmeechie

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I took some close ups (best as I could) of the front and back of the dial. After looking it over It looks like the centre section was guilded originally, with nothing attached as there’s no sign of soldering or room for something to fit between the trim or winding grommets. This looks like an art nouveau styled clock from around 1905 - 1910 and I’m thinking it’s all original.

79269CA0-CF4D-49B0-8A49-BFA3A4D06D4D.jpeg 902DA235-F12D-4ABB-9439-0D3BCB28C2D5.jpeg 77AF5687-2228-4979-B270-6341BE73B5F9.jpeg C7D4CFB3-FBB2-4C8A-846D-CCECF5373448.jpeg E96A0322-0CB6-418E-B408-C78AD41044F9.jpeg
 

Jmeechie

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Yes, someone appears to have scrubbed the ceramic dial chapter ring with an abrasive and I’m thinking the same as the centre section, which looks like it was guilded judging by the back and there may have been a painted design but nothing else.
So do I, there is a faint pretty original decoration around the minute numbering on the dial so I can't see why they'd bother with that and leave the centre looking like that. I'd say it is two piece dial and a sibling is missing.
 

Jmeechie

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Yes Tatyana, it definitely is very similar. I came across this site, which is in ? Polish, Czechoslovakian ? and I’m sure someone will enlighten me, has some great pictures and and documents on what appears to be Gronemann & Franke, Gronemann and ? Here’s the link Zegary cieszyńskie: Franke&Gronemann, Johann Franke, Świt, Orjon. - ZEGARY
I certainly agree with previous posts concerning something possibly being in the centre of the dial, it’s just all the ones I’ve seen or touched, had designs on the weights and or pendulum bob along with the dial and my weights are plain. And yes, pins (clothing) and a sheet metal screw are not original to the dial!


 

jmclaugh

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So perhaps the inside dial once looked like the design or a similar one of the dial Tatyana posted. If so it is a shame it has gone.
 
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Kinpol

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The weights and pendulum are plain. I saw many "Świt" clocks with such brass center. " Świt" in English means "dawn"... :)
 

Jmeechie

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Thank you again Kinpol! So it sounds like this is my clock as well! “Swit”
I’m guessing, my interpretation of “Swit” or “Dawn” is like the sunrise, color of the sky. So, it’s very possible, the centre was, gold flashed or guilded, and the bob and weight as well or highly polished!
 

Jmeechie

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*UPDATE*
Tidied up the case, removing most of the horrid black (who knows spill stains!) along with straightening the chime rods. The rods are very unique with double tapers at the top? Tore apart the poorly treated movement and found more butchering had been done! Some lazy repair person drilled additional holes in the winding drums to be able to replace the cords (or fishing line!) without dis assembling the movement! I’m planning on making up some brass plugs and soldering them in and. Dressing them down. The drill even hit the removable side plate, gouging it as well. Oh, and checkout the pile of cord/fishing line ends that were in the drums!

FECB193B-E2D6-4FED-BA26-56472F5B6BF4.jpeg 2490439E-5FFB-4871-A47D-D87ED60A8301.jpeg A9DAEB0F-E19C-4DCB-AAC4-1956E76719AB.jpeg 0B4980F8-A343-4B37-A01C-1BC4CA88384D.jpeg 0882B2B8-2015-42B6-BA2B-189A3B4FDAAE.jpeg 3A4BCCB3-AF68-443E-A037-AA8975442D5A.jpeg D21E5B28-E1F6-4306-8792-32171D4B34CF.jpeg
 
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