Newbie with questions strikes again--Junghans 160 Westminster reassembly

[Jess19721]

Hi all,

Questions from the newbie again so I apologize in advance for the kindergarten level of the post,

I just completed a disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of thrift shop Junghans Westminster that the chimes and strike were running on under power (meaning only that they moved robustly in what appeared to be the correct manner when the minute hand was cycled through the hour), but the going train displayed no signs of life in the tick-tock variety. I followed Al Takatsch's 8 hour video for the same movement on Patreon throughout. It was very helpful but the setting up of the chime and strike parts on the face of the front plate wasn't slow enough or filmed clearly enough for someone as new as I am, so I probably botched that part. Overall it was a great learning experience in terms of splitting plates and getting what was my first 3 train movement back together (my neck is still sore from peering through those plates so long), but it has left me with so many questions.

I reassembled the movement and everything seemed to be moving as expected under hand pressure okay. I put in the time barrel only in and gave it some power and it started to run, and seemed to be running strongly when the pendulum was added on the test stand. I then added the chime and strike barrels and now it will only weakly and briefly run, and only go as it did on the test stand if I apply positive pressure to the minute hand.

This clock had a bent center arbor that I straightened to the best of my ability, could it be that just too much drag is still remaining from my attempt? Or can a chime assembly wrongly configurated interfere with a healthy beat?

This is a clock purchased for educational purposes with who knows what else is wrong with it, and undoubtedly needs rebushed, but was wondering if anyone could give me some take away thoughts to ponder as I go forward. Will be setting this movement aside while I continue to read and watch videos, hopefully to be revisited sometime in the future when I have some notion of what I am doing.

Thanks everybody for this wonderful forum and any and all responses you may have will be appreciated,
Jessica

 

[J. A. Olson]

Worn bushings, misaligned chime warning levers, and bent pinions would be the first things to check for: anticipating the movement was reassembled correctly. In operation the chime and hour strike trains should not give so much pressure as to hamper the time train.
Chime movements don't take kindly to any level of wear or misalignment.

 

[Jess19721]

Worn bushings, misaligned chime warning levers, and bent pinions would be the first things to check for: anticipating the movement was reassembled correctly. In operation the chime and hour strike trains should not give so much pressure as to hamper the time train.
Chime movements don't take kindly to any level of wear or misalignment.

Sounds like I'm a walking triple threat! Would have been nice not to have the bent center arbor on top of everything else. As it is it would seem I have countless friction vectors. I thank you for your reply!

 

[shutterbug]

It has all of the signs of power loss. Did you bush it? Is it in beat?

 

[Jess19721]

It has all of the signs of power loss. Did you bush it? Is it in beat?

Hi and thank you! Yes, I believe it was in beat, but sadly no on the bushings and I'm sure I saw 11 that were in obvious need. This is only the second clock I've ever fully disassembled, cleaned and put back together. The first was a ST 120 that only needed new main springs (getting the new ones in the fixed barrels was an adventure for me) along with needing new wire springs which Conover's book illuminated for me perfectly. She was a success and (for now of course with zero bushing intervention) is keeping time again. Stroke of luck to be my first attempt on that one.

Unfortunately I'm a total rube in the world of clock repair and I'm deep in reading and watching video stage. I don't have any real tools yet other that the basics and the handy filed assortment of screwdrivers in my arsenal. I just got my Webster spring winder so that set me back a bit, but I think I've been intimidated to even start learning about bushing work knowing the outlay for the equipment will be very steep. Is learning hand bushing a reasonable path to pursue for a beginner?

 

[eemoore]

Hi and thank you! Yes, I believe it was in beat, but sadly no on the bushings and I'm sure I saw 11 that were in obvious need. This is only the second clock I've ever fully disassembled, cleaned and put back together. The first was a ST 120 that only needed new main springs (getting the new ones in the fixed barrels was an adventure for me) along with needing new wire springs which Conover's book illuminated for me perfectly. She was a success and (for now of course with zero bushing intervention) is keeping time again. Stroke of luck to be my first attempt on that one.

Unfortunately I'm a total rube in the world of clock repair and I'm deep in reading and watching video stage. I don't have any real tools yet other that the basics and the handy filed assortment of screwdrivers in my arsenal. I just got my Webster spring winder so that set me back a bit, but I think I've been intimidated to even start learning about bushing work knowing the outlay for the equipment will be very steep. Is learning hand bushing a reasonable path to pursue for a beginner?

If I may, let me try to give you some incouragement about learning how to put in new bushings.. I am also no expert and have only taken to repairing clocks over the last year or so. Like you ,I was hesitate to undertake this task, but was able to find another more experienced hobbyist who showed me how he hand bushed his repairs. It is not all that difficult! I watched several you tube videos and with my friends advice, have been able to re-bush a couple of clocks recently with great success. Yes, you will need to buy some reamers,bushings,files,broaches, but you might find some used ones for sale or just buy what you need for a certain clock to get you started. Try to find someone in your area that can help and show you the basic approach. Hey, i am 75 y.o. ! If I can do it ,you can for sure!! If you are going to repair clocks ,you are going to have to know how to do bushings. Good Luck.

 

[Jess19721]

If I may, let me try to give you some incouragement about learning how to put in new bushings.. I am also no expert and have only taken to repairing clocks over the last year or so. Like you ,I was hesitate to undertake this task, but was able to find another more experienced hobbyist who showed me how he hand bushed his repairs. It is not all that difficult! I watched several you tube videos and with my friends advice, have been able to re-bush a couple of clocks recently with great success. Yes, you will need to buy some reamers,bushings,files,broaches, but you might find some used ones for sale or just buy what you need for a certain clock to get you started. Try to find someone in your area that can help and show you the basic approach. Hey, i am 75 y.o. ! If I can do it ,you can for sure!! If you are going to repair clocks ,you are going to have to know how to do bushings. Good Luck.

Thank you for your encouraging words! How exciting to hear from another relative newcomer and yet hear of the strides you are making in such a short span of time. What are your thoughts on KWM vs. Bergeon?

 

[Paul Statham]

Hi Jess, you don't need to buy expensive tools for bushing to start with i just bought cheap one's to begin with and done the bushing buy hand on my first clock, and still do it by hand there are video's on you tube to help you with. I got mine from counsin's in the UK in US i think it is timesavers so don't be put off by that, the expensive tools that can come later. There is plenty of help here if you need it don't be afraid to ask good luck

 

[Jess19721]

Hi Jess, you don't need to buy expensive tools for bushing to start with i just bought cheap one's to begin with and done the bushing buy hand on my first clock, and still do it by hand there are video's on you tube to help you with. I got mine from counsin's in the UK in US i think it is timesavers so don't be put off by that, the expensive tools that can come later. There is plenty of help here if you need it don't be afraid to ask good luck

Appreciate you Paul! Much thanks!

 

[Mike Mall]

Hi all,

Questions from the newbie again so I apologize in advance for the kindergarten level of the post,

I just completed a disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of thrift shop Junghans Westminster that the chimes and strike were running on under power (meaning only that they moved robustly in what appeared to be the correct manner when the minute hand was cycled through the hour), but the going train displayed no signs of life in the tick-tock variety. I followed Al Takatsch's 8 hour video for the same movement on Patreon throughout. It was very helpful but the setting up of the chime and strike parts on the face of the front plate wasn't slow enough or filmed clearly enough for someone as new as I am, so I probably botched that part. Overall it was a great learning experience in terms of splitting plates and getting what was my first 3 train movement back together (my neck is still sore from peering through those plates so long), but it has left me with so many questions.

I reassembled the movement and everything seemed to be moving as expected under hand pressure okay. I put in the time barrel only in and gave it some power and it started to run, and seemed to be running strongly when the pendulum was added on the test stand. I then added the chime and strike barrels and now it will only weakly and briefly run, and only go as it did on the test stand if I apply positive pressure to the minute hand.

This clock had a bent center arbor that I straightened to the best of my ability, could it be that just too much drag is still remaining from my attempt? Or can a chime assembly wrongly configurated interfere with a healthy beat?

This is a clock purchased for educational purposes with who knows what else is wrong with it, and undoubtedly needs rebushed, but was wondering if anyone could give me some take away thoughts to ponder as I go forward. Will be setting this movement aside while I continue to read and watch videos, hopefully to be revisited sometime in the future when I have some notion of what I am doing.

Thanks everybody for this wonderful forum and any and all responses you may have will be appreciated,
Jessica

Well you jumped right in, that's a great way to learn. 3 trains apart, and back together, is not an easy start.
You say it ran before you installed the chime, and strike barrels. Maybe you can back track (remove parts) to where the problem began, and figure it out from there. You can also try removing the verge, and see if the time train moves freely under very ow power. Just wind a couple of clicks and see if it goes. I reassemble each train solo first, to check that each part moves freely, before a final complete reassembly. It's pretty easy to assemble one train.
Be careful! - Addiction is often associated with this behavior!
Good luck

 

[eemoore]

Thank you for your encouraging words! How exciting to hear from another relative newcomer and yet hear of the strides you are making in such a short span of time. What are your thoughts on KWM vs. Bergeon?

Jess, I am certainly not a qualified person that can tell you all of the differences between the two systems. I used Bergeon bushing,ect. simply because that's what my friend was using. I am sure there is more information on this site that can give you all of the information. Hopefully someone else witrh more experienced will answer. Good luck with your endeavors,

 

[Jess19721]

Well you jumped right in, that's a great way to learn. 3 trains apart, and back together, is not an easy start.
You say it ran before you installed the chime, and strike barrels. Maybe you can back track (remove parts) to where the problem began, and figure it out from there. You can also try removing the verge, and see if the time train moves freely under very ow power. Just wind a couple of clicks and see if it goes. I reassemble each train solo first, to check that each part moves freely, before a final complete reassembly. It's pretty easy to assemble one train.
Be careful! - Addiction is often associated with this behavior!
Good luck

Much thanks! You are so right on the addiction part, my husband's eyes have glazed over, all the clock jabber is about as interesting to him as football is to me! Thank you I plan on following your advice and backtracking. It's good practice anyway and I'd like to find another couple videos that show how to set the strike and chime. I'm quite sure I botched that part.

 

[shutterbug]

This article by our own Bangster may give you the encouragement you need.

 

[Jess19721]

This article by our own Bangster may give you the encouragement you need.

This is excellent I sincerely thank you!

 

[eemoore]

This is excellent I sincerely thank you!

burgeon-kwm-reamer-question.46752 .jess, this is a link to a discussion on burgeon and KWM bushing that you might find helpful. Best of luck!

 

[Jess19721]

burgeon-kwm-reamer-question.46752 .jess, this is a link to a discussion on burgeon and KWM bushing that you might find helpful. Best of luck!

You all are fantastic!!