Newbie - New Joinable Group

Discussion in 'Message Board Help & Notices' started by Tom McIntyre, Apr 9, 2013.

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  1. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I had a request to provide a means by which new users who are feeling a bit out of their depth could identify themselves.

    Some message boards do that with all new users, but some of our new arrivals are very experienced, so we do not do that.

    You now have the ability under "Your Settings" to join the MB Novice permission group (under permission groups). Once you have joined you have the option to display your name and title as a member of that group.

    The user Jane Tester is a member of the group, so you can see how the name and title are displayed. Joining the group allows you to have an open request for help displayed at all times. Here is a thread with participation from Jane Tester. https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?99804-A-worthy-post-to-test-reputation&p=757328#post757328
     
  2. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Tom:

    Good idea in theory. Let me see if I understand.

    So that newbies aren't embarassed by asking seemingly "dumb" questions to our group of "experts," they can identify themselves as newbies with the tag near their avatar.

    I suspect that once they become confident and experienced (maybe in a year), they can remove that tag.

    My question is, does removing the tag at a later date also remove the tag from all his former posts, so if someone looks back a year and finds his post, they look like "dumb" questions from the guy who is now giving advice?

    It seems to me that it would be much easier for the newbie to title his post simply as "Newbie wants to know...."

    Besides, in many cases, one does not know who the poster is anyway because his username is not his real name. Can someone change his username after awhile? That way, when the poster becomes confident, he can change his username to something different.

    Frank
     
  3. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Just as one can join the group and go "green," one can leave the group and lose one's "green" status on all posts on which it appeared.
     
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The same is true for names. You can change your name,but it propagates to all former posts. You only have one active name in the database and the posts contain a reference to your account where the software looks up your name.

    If you hover over the name of someone with the distinctive green appearance, the meMe" will pop up. :)

    I set this up in response to a request from a BOD member who had talked with a new member who felt intimidated by the Message Board.

    If we wanted to give this teeth, the moderators could give an infraction or diminished reputation to anyone who spoke harshly to a green newbie. Newbies could report posts with such behavior and the report message "why is he picking on me?" :)

    (As some of you know, I break into song at the drop of a hat. This discussion is close to forcing me to sing a few verses of "Charlie Brown.")
     
  5. Thyme

    Thyme Banned

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    "Teeth"? Why mention teeth?

    Ahh... Welcome to the NAWCC kindergarten with its relentless drift into the land of political correctness: the new nanny state where the nannies rule, and everyone will be treated as a child. :cop:

    Yes, it's a world where nanny has teeth, but she pretends she doesn't. :rolleyes:

    "Waa, waa, waaaah! He PICKED on me! Nanny (or Mommy), MAKE HIM STOP!" :mysad:

    My daughter occasionally said such things when she began kindergarten. I'm glad I was there to help her grow up, and leave the mentality of victimhood and imposed protectionism behind. She certainly doesn't say such things any more, because she is now an adult. Adults don't need nannies to protect them. But nannies may need to justify their positions of authority through perpetual makework.

    So is this MB a forum for adult discussion or will it become a nursery, obsessed with accommodating and placating hypersensitive newbies?
     
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I suspect you do not realize how terrified some users are of being subjected to a detailed analysis of why their question was ill formed and pointless.

    That fear suppresses dialog that could be very useful to everyone. It would not take much effort to refrain from such analysis if you were notified that the person would rather depart than debate in that way.

    If necessary, we are perfectly happy to discipline those adults who take candy from children (even if the kids really need to toughen up.)
     
  7. Thyme

    Thyme Banned

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    If so, you (and apparently this board) are overly concerned with mollifying some "terrified" adults who are hypersensitive and are acting like children.

    That says that your principal fear is that you might lose those who are "terrified". This comes at the expense of turning the MB into a nursery school atmosphere for everyone else. "All for the children..." :rolleyes:

    Your metaphor is not applicable. No one is taking candy from anyone. Besides, there are no children involved here, at all! I am well aware that you are "perfectly happy" to increase the power of the moderators here through intimidation, censorship, etc. executed by whim whenever when the nanny moderator becomes displeased.

    At least be honest and rename this message board the NAWCC Nursery and Day Care Center. That is what this forum is becoming.
     
  8. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    So far we have not had anyone choose the novice user group.

    Perhaps we should create a "curmudgeon" user group for those who reserve the right to be unkind to anyone they meet. If it were clearly announced in their name display and title, then others would feel free to make allowances for a self declared bully and ignore what they said.

    We could decorate their name with a red background and have the pop up read "Look out" instead of "Help me" as the novice group does. That could be a voluntary public joinable group also just like the novice group is.

    The fact that someone is intimidated by public criticism in no way implies that they have no interesting questions or anything useful to say. Some of them, by the way, are children. We maintain this board as suitable for use by children.
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Wrong!! You need to rethink your premise that this is an "adults only" venue. When Tom refers to users he does not limit that term to adults; in fact we have many registered users who are children under the age of 18 and they deserve to find a friendly and encouraging environment here, not to have their questions picked apart.

    The NAWCC encourages youth to join and participate in our organization at all levels and we work to ensure they will have an enjoyable and educational experience. For example, we offer a Youth membership for minors that enables them to join chapters, attend events and enjoy the benefits of NAWCC. On this venue we have had good success in mentoring youths who started as early as age 13 and after some years are now substantial contributors, by virtue of their digging in to find the facts on clocks and watches.

    There are also adults who "are" intimidated when some of our users pick apart and negatively criticize their questions. Many of them simply do not continue after one or two posts, and we get enough complaints from others to know this is a problem.

    The idea of creating a "Newbie" group is to enable any person whether a minor or an adult to be able to post without being subjected to undue and unwarranted criticism. Not any kind of "nanny" treatment at all, just trying to keep this site user-friendly.
     
  10. Thyme

    Thyme Banned

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    As is said in the tech world: "If no one uses it - there's a reason."

    Wow. Apparently I've touched a nerve.

    Apparently you like labeling people, especially those like me when I express a critical opinion, with whom you disagree.

    Okay. Let's broadcast to the board the Thyme is a curmudgeon.

    Do you feel better now, having insinuated that?

    What is so bad about allowing anyone to be curmudgeonly, other than you considering it to be an affront to your authority?

    I am criticizing no one, except the administration of this board. Can you tolerate it without becoming unhinged?

    As I said earlier, this board is drifting into treating all the majority of adults on it as children to mollify the children you now claim to comprise a segment of the participants here. It dumbs down this forum to the least common denominator, all in the name of egalitarianism. And your response is voiced in a punitive, intimidating way towards anyone who raises an objection to it.

    I'm sure you have statistics about this newly purported population of children in our midst and might be eager to cite them. But no matter how many you say they are, I will not consider this provable, as we who are not administrators have no way of verifying anything you might say as being true. Frankly, considering the unfolding of this thread and the continually escalating rationalizations offered, I don't believe you.
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    It has not been announced to the novice users. Why are you reacting to something that has not yet happened except to the test account Jane Tester?

    I think you have reacted without really reading what I said. I have not labeled you but have offered you the ability to label yourself since you seem jealous of the MB Novice group. Curmudgeons are certainly welcome. However, common decency would dictate that if a participant declared that they were unarmed, even the curmudgeons would not attack them.

    Unhinged? In what way are my remarks unhinged or irrational? Yours do seem a bit strident to me but I will leave it to readers to decide whom is over the top.
    I am sorry if you feel intimidated. That was not my intent. If you want to display the Newbie title, you are free to do so. In that case I will make a special effort to treat you gently. Please note that you must request that treatment if you want it. It is not forced on anyone who does not actively seek it.
    Maybe you should tell your mama that I lied to you. :) DOB information is voluntary and not confirmed. The site does not collect COPPA data but rather tries to insure that it is child safe. No one else has found that to be a problem except a few porn spammers that we remove almost instantly.
     
  12. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    [QUOTE=Tom McIntyre;771590
    Maybe you should tell your mama that I lied to you. :) DOB information is voluntary and not confirmed. The site does not collect COPPA data but rather tries to insure that it is child safe. No one else has found that to be a problem except a few porn spammers that we remove almost instantly.[/QUOTE]

    I really expect more from an administrator, a moderator and/or a member of the BOD of the NAWCC.

    With respect to newbies, etc, you are just fostering the fact that the U.S. education system is teaching to the least common denominator. Everyone wins, everyone is equal; thus, when they grow up (if they do) they do not want to be criticized, nor, do they want to provide constructive criticism. Nor do they want to put themselves in any position where they might be. Entitled!

    Time to get rid of the bells/whistles that provide no value to this board.

    Might the time on this board be better spent letting the members of this board understand the benefits of joining the NAWCC?
     
  13. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It seems to me that some are taking some sort of offense at the establishment if the Newbie group and, as a result, are directing strong criticism of the idea. I find this curious because those voicing the criticism will in no way be impacted; certainly, they would in no way belong (or even choose to belong) to this group.

    My own current feeling is that few new members will choose to belong to the Newbie group. Many new members are experienced in clocks/watches, perhaps even NAWCC members, and would have no need to belong to the group. Many others who would be appropriately invcluded in the group may not notice they have the option. (It is well-nigh impossible, sometimes, to get members to notice that we have rules, to read them, and to abide by them.)

    The main benefit that I see from joining the group is that the more experienced members would know to tailor their responses to make them understandable to persons who may have absolutely no idea about any aspect of antique clocks/watches. Of course, that is dependent on the willingness of the experienced members to so tailor their responses. If this is playng to the lowest common denominator, so be it. Perhaps we will impress such Newbies on the friendliness and helpfulness of the NAWCC and thus eventually foster a desire to join. In any event, it can't hurt and can take its place along with other efforts that let members of the message board understand the benefits of joining the NAWCC. It is not an only this and never that situation.

    In any event, I am not satisfied at the turn that this thread has taken. It is becoming a clash of personalities and not an exchange of useful ideas. To that extent, the thread is receiving no useful input. I am closing it unless and until another administrator overrules me.
     

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