New to pocket watches. Just picked up this Waltham 1899 Movement

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by helldan211, Jan 24, 2018.

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  1. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Hi Everybody,

    I wanted to start collecting pocket watches and found this movement on the bay. What struck me was how much damascening there was. Also it looks like the star wheel and possibly the train are gold. Is that common for a P.S. Bartlett 16s? Now I need to find a proper case for it and display it. Should I be looking for cases by A.W.Co? or Fahy's? I'm excited to start this new hobby!
    Dan PS Bartlet.jpg PS Bartlett Face.jpg
     
  2. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    the parts are gilt, not solid gold.
     
  3. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    Hi, welcome.

    And very nice it is too.

    To me that looks like absolutely normal Waltham damaskeening. Some are quite spectacular.

    Back in the day, the movement and case were separate purchases, therefore there isn't really one correct case for it - apart from, of course, the one it was purchased with. So, any openface case which currently holds a Waltham movement with a serial number that's within a few million either way, is probably from the right era and would look ok. (16s cases are not often sold separately, although you might get lucky.)
     
  4. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Hey Dan,
    Nice movement,good luck finding a case for it.
    Be careful pocket watch collecting can become a
    serious addiction ;)

    Rob
     
  5. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    Your movement was mfg about 1904-05. The case which would be most appropriate would be one with a high (tall) pendant. Your movement is a standard 16 size and will fit in any standard 16 size case.

    Tom
     
  6. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Thanks for the input! Yes, I've noticed that this could get dangerous! Right now I'm trying to learn as much as I can. So the center wheel and the star wheel are gold colored or plated? Either way I liked the way it looks. Thanks again for the info.
     
  7. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    I can also confirm that the appearance of your movement is quite standard -- Waltham did do a nice job, didn't they? I have the same movement with a serial number close to yours and it is finished the same. What IS remarkable about your watch is the dial. Your dial is a very high-grade dial, called the "Hull" style, which was normally only (and exclusively) used on Waltham's "American Watch Co." grade bridge model movements. It is a mystery how it ended up on a mid-grade movement like the P.S. Bartlett.
     
  8. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Hi Jerry, That is interesting. Should I look for a higher grade movement and use this dial and hunt around for a midgrade dial for this movement? I picked up a few things to get my hobby going. I bought a box lot of mainsprings, a swartchild and co poising tool and watch-craft pocket mainspring winders ( actually they were missing the winding part. Only had the arbors). Do you know where I can find a pocket watch bench tool? I can't seem to find them on timesavers etc.
     
  9. John Cote

    John Cote Director
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    I love this dial style. It is a high grade dial as Jerry said and the sort of dial found on a gentleman's watch as opposed to a RR watch. The minute and hour hand seem to go with the dial style but I have to believe that the second hand might be a replacement. Anyway...it is a nice watch to start with. My bet, given the dial style, is that this is a pendant set movement. If it is pendant instead of lever set, when looking for a case, you will have to take a couple of things into consideration. Ideally you would want a case with no lever slot. You would also like a case with a stem long enough to activate the setting mechanism. You may need to file of shim the stem to get the movement to set in a case that you find. It will be a good exercise in watch surgery. Welcome.
     
  10. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Thanks John. I am excited.
     
  11. beta21

    beta21 Registered User

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    John, by looking at the visible part of the shipper spring, you can tell for sure, that this mvt is pendant set. It has a pointed bend, as opposed to a rounded one on the lever set mvt's.
     
  12. George Frick

    George Frick Registered User
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    Hi Dan, welcome snd congratulations on joing a great group and hobby. I got the bug about 4 years ago. The old timers here are a great resource. A couple items of advice thst were given to me.
    1. Condition condition condition. If you are after a particular watch purchase the best example you can afford.
    2. It is better in the long run to purchase complete, correct watches. Trying to piece one together can get expensive.
    3. Absolutely millions of pocket watches were produced "way back when". These are worth anywhere from a buck on up.
    Learn how to use the search function on this site. It has years of valuable information. If you are after a particular watch learn what the correct dial and hands should be to the movement. Learn what an appropriate case would be. This learning has brought joy to me. Warning, there are fakes out there and cobbeled together watches. It is hard to make money with watches, but you would want your purchase to hold its value. Ask questions! 3 weeks ago this board advised me that the dial i was looking at was a decal! Saved me $350. Have fun@ that is all
     
  13. George Frick

    George Frick Registered User
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    Having trouble typing with my fat fingers on this phone. Sorry
     
  14. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Hi George! Thank you for the warm welcome and advice. I've already had some antique dealers try to sell me something that was "valuable because how old it is." I didn't fall for it. While making money on watches might be how I justify the hobby to my wife......I really mostly want to collect. If I can flip some to purchase others and have it occasionally fund itself, then that is good enough for me. I used to do that with old tobacco pipes. Thank you again and I can't wait to find a case for this movement!
     
  15. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I agree. I sold a few movements and a couple watches last week at a NAWCC Mart
    and then turned around and gave all the money to someone there(at the same mart) to fix
    a watch that I really like(and gave him a priority mailing box and label to ship it back to me).


    Rob
     
  16. helldan211

    helldan211 Registered User

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    Hi Rob,

    Forgive me, but what is a NAWCC Mart? I see you are from NY. Do you know of any on Long Island?
     
  17. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    First, yes there are some Marts on Long Island.

    This is a very quick answer to the first part of your question........
    The NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors) has chapters all over the USA and also internationally.
    These chapters have meetings 4-6 times a year, and at each of these meetings(in my experience) they start with what is
    called a Mart. The chapter sets up tables and members pay 6 dollars to rent a 1/2 of a table or can rent a whole table
    to sell/or trade watches and clocks to each other(plus a small amount of non horological stuff)

    Members can bring guests but it's not an open to the public general admission event. You don't have to rent a table if you just
    want to walk around and look at what's for sale. It's like a flee market that only has
    horological stuff.

    At the end of the mart there is usually some sort of
    presentation about clocks or watches given by one(or more) of the members(always very interesting). At the ones I go to
    there are bagels, coffee, muffins, and other breakfast things there.
    I enjoy them.


    Rob
     
  18. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The Hull dial is thought to have been made for the American Watch Co. grade 1899 Bridge Model. They are occasionally found on other grades, but that seems to be a mystery. It is possibly the result of an inventory mismatch since there was an effort on the part of the company to suppress the Bridge model. @Jerry Treiman posted an interesting piece a while back with a note expressing the need to limit the American Watch Co. grade watches because they were too expensive to make and cut into the sales of the Riverside Maximus which presumably had higher margins or perhaps better Waltham Brand Identity.

    If you find a bridge model with a different dial, that has American provenance and an American case, it may have lost its original Hull dial. If the bridge model has English connections, the non-Hull dial is rather more common on those because they were often cased and dialed in the U.K.
     

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