New Purchase Terry and Andrews Double Decker Steeple Clock

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by Russell Dickson, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I have been looking for one of these for a while and one finally came up at auction and I purchased it. It is a very nice Terry and Andrews steeple on steeple 8 day time and strike. It has its original finish, dial and upper glass. I'm not sure if the reverse painted tablets are original but they look correct.

    s-l5c00.jpg s-l5z00.jpg s-l50c0.jpg s-l50f0.jpg s-l50m0.jpg s-l50n0.jpg s-l500.jpg
     
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  2. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    wow... fantastic condition. even if the glasses have been re-done it works for me! :)
     
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  3. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I'm pretty happy with it. I have been hunting for a steeple on steeple and I every time I got close to getting one, a bidding war would start and the price would shoot up. I paid a little more than I wanted on this one but it is in such beautiful shape why complain.
     
  4. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Good looking clock Russell! I keep hoping to sneak up on a good wagonspring for reasonable (cheap?) money, but I would be very please to own your example or something similar. I really like the glasses too. A very nice example!
     
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  5. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I am happy to have it. Hopefully your yours soon. I know the clock your talking about. I love the Birge and Fuller double decker steeple clocks too.
     
  6. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I have a bit of a fascination with the Terrys, and with Ansonia clocks, so this clock ticks a lot of boxes for me. I have and Eli Terry, a Henry Terry, and now I have this one from Theodore Terry(Terry and Andrews), Samuel Terry's son. I have my eye on a very nice Samuel Terry woodworks column and splat now.
    Here is a link to some interesting company information Ansonia Clock Company History ~ Antique Clocks Guy: We bring antique clocks collectors and buyers together. Always the highest quality antique clocks available.
     
  7. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Now that I had a closer look I am thinking the glass could be original. They are wavy and have bubbles in them.
     
  8. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    #8 Jim DuBois, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    Russell, I suspect the glasses are repaints on old glass. I have always requested the use of old glass (or provided it myself) when I have had glasses done. Both Lee Davis and Tom Moberg have always been able to provide old wavy and often bubbled glass. The reason I would suspect yours to be repainted is at least two-fold. First, they are in too good of shape to be accepted as period without a more detailed inspection, and second, they are a matching pair in regard to border colors and the like. Many original glasses are not matching pairs in these clocks. Yes, some are but coupled with the too good of condition, it casts a bit of doubt as to their possible originality.

    The backsides of the glasses are often even more telling. The glasses were often originally painted by more than one artist, so the back painting may be different etc. You can see flaking paint and other flaws in several of these examples. The photo of the candlestick double steeple (3rd in line of candlestick photos) has IMO repaints, they match and if you blow the photos up I think you will note the details are more coarsely done and appear far more hand-painted than the true stencil painted glasses. Looks good until you look closely. Yours are better done than that example. Please note I am viewing these on a large (38") 4K screen and expand them further to see good detail. For folks looking on their Iphones details like mentioned will not be apparent.

    It is a great clock of which you should be very proud, no matter the glasses ages.

    12321315_10206906428197859_8526298369799228300_n.jpg 983861_10204978542681926_2419196543952251910_n.jpg 11016714_10204978543641950_4302022219591733065_n.jpg 17151_A.JPG 17151_C.JPG 21362_01.jpg 10993425_10204978542561923_2677379465761025123_n.jpg
     
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  9. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Makes sense to me, you certainly know your stuff, they are very well done and I am happy to add this clock to my collection.
     
  10. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    moberg signs his on the back.... and i specified old glass for the recent ST pillar and scroll tablet he did for me... #45

    tablet_signed.jpg
     
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  11. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Jim, in the examples you posted, I have been told that the style of the third (with it's reverse pictured last) were stencilled while the others were handpainted. Since hearing that, I have noticed that this could be the case as the brush strokes used are very much like those used for calligrahic or penmanship art as well as some tole painting. I don't have my reference books with me right now, but just wondered if anyone else has seen or heard similar thoughts?

    Pat
     
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  12. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    I have had several clocks with glasses signed by Tom, but I also have 3 glasses in clocks her today that he did for me nearly 40 years ago that are unsigned. So, maybe signatures are later in his work?

    20190915_163148 1.jpg 20190915_163142.jpg
     
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  13. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Pat, you are of course correct that some fair amount of these glasses were either hand-painted or had partial hand-painted with stencil work, or later lithography work too. Those hand-painted back in the day are usually quite elegantly done. The example I used above, the 3rd of the candlestick photos does not rise to the occasion, so to speak. No. 1 below is a blow-up of one of those glasses. Photo No. 2 is of a period work. I think the difference is striking when looked at closely

    glass example 1.jpg glass example 2.jpg
     
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  14. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Interesting.

    My first impression was also that they were well done reproductions.

    I agree with JD's statements.

    I've seen many of those types of glasses and have/have had a # of the originals in clocks. After a while, there just that je ne sais quoi about the originals vs. even good repops like yours. True about other styles of glasses as well. I also find that with dial signatures, the scrolls on a pillar and scroll, paint on furniture, and so on. Tough to get just right.

    My personal experience with Terry and Andrews, including their steeple on steeples, is that Fenn stenciled glasses were almost always used. I have not seen free hand geometric or florals of similar type in their clocks that I thought were original. No, not sure that's a hard and fast rule. It's ironic in that I have seen clocks by various makers where a Fenn stenciled glass coexisted with a geometric. The suggestion has been made that he made the latter, too. To wit:

    birge and fuller.jpg smith and goodrich 1.JPG

    The steeple on steeple has a free hand glass above, Fenn stenciled below. The box clock, in the opposite order.

    The use of old glass, as indicated by ripples, bubbles, etc is useful. If it's not old glass, then the point about their originality is moot. If present, that's good but does not guarantee originality.

    I agree with the recommendation to check the back. Sometimes a look there, seeing if the method of retention is correct and undisturbed, etc. can tell you more than the front.

    Still a nice clock.

    Hope it gives you many years of enjoyment.

    RM
     
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  15. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I'll take a look at mine again.
     
  16. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    if i didn’t like you so much i’d be kind of annoyed about now... :)
     
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  17. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    i also have that moon dial banjo clock with re-done glasses... i know they were done by linda abrams... also signed. just an fyi...
     
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  18. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I relate, I have a feeling jim has some amazing clocks at home he has not shared with us yet.
     
  19. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    lol bringing up that moon phase banjo is a shot to the heart. Is it the one I was bidding against you on? I would love to see a picture with the new tablets.
     
  20. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    The box clock looks a little like a weight driven Willard shelf clock?
     
  21. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    This is one that I am referring to, this one has a mirror, but some of them have a reverse painted tablet on the bottom. I have come close a couple times to getting one. I would give my right arm for one of these clocks!

    H1061-L104805007.jpg
     
  22. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    It's a much smaller Smith and Goodrich fusee movement shelf clock.

    You can see more about it on my fusee thread.

    This pic should give you a better idea of the size (and another example):

    smith and goodrich.jpg

    RM
     
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  23. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Well, Russell, you might be pretty disappointed with the clocks I currently own. And I have shared quite a few of them here on the MB over the last 3 or 4 years. I got busy writing a book regarding Joseph Ives nearly 4 years ago. I acquired a lot of Ives related clocks in pursuit of his story if you will. I have clocks by other makers too, most of which I have as they are part of other stories. Some of my pursuits have to do with etched vs. frosted glasses in clocks, others are around my interest in unusual/uncommon woodworks clocks, and continuing interest in all American clocks of the 18th century. I am also interested in and working on the long story of ogee clocks, mostly those made before 1845.

    Over the last xx years, I have bought and sold many clocks, at one time, while living in NH, I had an inventory of 300+ mostly American tall clocks, in partnership with one other fellow. Some were excellent clocks, many were OK, and some were near junk. And in that group were some of the rarest, and some number of then undocumented woodworks tall clocks to be found. Ward Francillon visited several times and in one visit I think he left with 14 tall clock movements and dials of interest to him and several were new to him. I have bought and sold several hundred mantel/shelf/wall clocks also. I learned a lot.

    Since moving back to Texas 25 years ago I have bought far fewer clocks and have sold even less, given the very soft market we see today sales are uncommon and are often at a loss. I have also done a number of serious restorations of some fairly rare clocks. Some of these adventures have been documented in the COG Counters Journal and at least one in the NAWCC Bulletin (on finials) with another pending publication.

    Russell, I mention all this not to beat my own drum but to encourage others to dig in and participate and research and contribute to our hobby. Calling this a hobby is almost an understatement I think by the way. And Russell, I appreciate your interest and pursuit of clocks and your sharing of all that here.
     
  24. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Here are a couple of Moberg glasses with his signature. It would have been nice to have signatures from day one of painted glass tablets. Very few were signed back in the day.

    20190917_152944.jpg 20190917_153005 1.jpg
     
  25. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Interesting to see them from the back.

    Looks like one was done in situ with the original putty intact. Suspect the original decoration was lost and the clear glass remained. However, note how the black paint gets onto the putty.

    The other is just held in place with modern wire nails.

    Things to look for when assessing tablets.

    Even without the signature and though well done they still shout "repro". Also, not the right style for that type of clock or its period.

    RM
     
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  26. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    "Also, not the right style for that type of clock or its period. " Boy, you couldn't be more correct on that thought! A great example of money badly spent. Nicely done, but just all wrong style wise and period wise. Now, the real question is how did you know that Bob, since I had not shared that photo?

    20190917_165659 2.jpg
     
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  27. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Actually, I believe that you posted pix of it elsewhere? It's also in Horton's catalog.

    On my fusee thread, I recently posted a clock with another Moberg glass. Wonderfully done in a style most likely at the request of the clock owner....and completely wrong for the clock!

    boardman and wells.jpg

    Not quite applicable, but I can't help thinking of a quote from Dolly Parton that went something to the effect that it costs a lot of money to look this cheap.

    RM
     
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  28. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I
    So far from the clocks that you have shared I am far from disappointed. I have learned a lot here from people such as yourself. I appreciate the feedback that I get from my fellow clock collectors. It has been a life long passion for me since I was a child. I am eager to learn and share all I can.
     
  29. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Yeah, it came out of Hortons. I didn't buy it but it ended up here anyhow. It has an Ives "A" frame movement with a Jeromes "8-day roller pinion" label. Not an entirely common clock. The glasses are unfortunate on a couple of levels.

    It is indeed unfortunate that substantial money was spent on glasses that are entirely inappropriate. As in your example. Too bad folks don't do some investigation or ask people who have information as to proper glasses for their clocks when ordering up replacements. Just guessing but I suspect these glasses cost nearly as much as the clock brought at Horton's.

    Back to Russell's clock, his glasses are proper for his case, they are well done, and they are similar to other known period examples. So, if they are repainted, all is good. If they are original, even better.

    And Dolly was correct I think. Good of you to note it and share!
     
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  30. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    she did the tablets that came w it... one of the reasons i wanted it.

    sorry to re-open an old wound... guess you don’t want me to tell you how good it looks on the wall, or how well it’s running. o_O:);)
     
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  31. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Here is a picture of it in it's new home. I had a closer look at the glass it is very well done, no signatures though

    20190915_091856.jpg
     
  32. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I always find out the most fascinating things when I post my new acquisitions here. I have learned some new stuff about reverse painted tablets. It makes my clock hunting a lot more fun. Thanks everyone

    20190915_184217.jpg 20190915_184222.jpg
     
  33. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Actually I'm happy that clock went to one of us on here. I would love to see a picture of it with the new tablets
     

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