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New Old Long Case
- Thread starter Love clocks
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i'm not seeing a rack.... do you have it? goes on left-front-side and controls hourly striking?
- Oct 23, 2002
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It looks like someone cut off part of the base and feet.
The unsigned movement with parts missing has no real distinguishing features that can be attributed to any maker. It is most likely English.
Andy Dervan
The unsigned movement with parts missing has no real distinguishing features that can be attributed to any maker. It is most likely English.
Andy Dervan
I managed to find a very worn label hidden inside the clock case. It is so brown it blended in. But I've managed to work out it says James Usher Cabinet and Clock Case. Last bit I can't read. If so, it dates from 1845.
I would say, English longcase made circa 1835. The hands are replacements of the wrong type (except for the seconds hand which seems original) There are plenty good replacement hands available (brass ones) Nice looking clock.
I was going to say the case looked 1850s so your 1845 is probably right and it is rare to know who made the case.
As has been said you'd expect the hour and minute hands at this date to be a matching brass pattern not this earlier style. As there is no maker's name on the dial and presumably none on the back of the dial the best clue to help date it is probably the case maker Usher. The following from Loomes is, I would say, almost certainly the man.
"Usher, James (& Son) Lincoln, married 1809-50 (-76). Also clock case maker, who supplied many local clockmakers and left his trade label inside cases, usually with a number, e.g. no. 934 on a clock by John Hall of Sleaford, no. 1449 on a clock by William Greenwood of Grantham. Other numbers include 13 & 568."
If it is him then it indicates 1845 is a case number not a date. The aforementioned John Hall in Sleaford is listed working 1828-35, frustratingly Loomes while referring to him doesn't list a William Greenwood or any other Greenwood in Grantham in the same reference source. However I'd be inclined to say the clock hails from Lincolnshire and dates to around 1840 or so.
"Usher, James (& Son) Lincoln, married 1809-50 (-76). Also clock case maker, who supplied many local clockmakers and left his trade label inside cases, usually with a number, e.g. no. 934 on a clock by John Hall of Sleaford, no. 1449 on a clock by William Greenwood of Grantham. Other numbers include 13 & 568."
If it is him then it indicates 1845 is a case number not a date. The aforementioned John Hall in Sleaford is listed working 1828-35, frustratingly Loomes while referring to him doesn't list a William Greenwood or any other Greenwood in Grantham in the same reference source. However I'd be inclined to say the clock hails from Lincolnshire and dates to around 1840 or so.
Have a look at the dial under UV light as often the clockmakers name is written in different paint which wears off but my be still visible under UV light. Also look on the back of the dial to see if the dial painters name is present.
Which city in Australia are you located?
Cheers
Which city in Australia are you located?
Cheers
i see a nice period looking finish on the white base coat of the dial, but the rest looks to have been repainted to me? this could make it pretty difficult to see the remnants of a maker. the calendar complication seems to have a modern looking font. the clock is indeed a very nice example.
Thank you for the pix. My 2 LCs are brass dial but I enjoy looking at the later ones too. Enjoy your new baby.
yes all the black has been redone and not too well. That could be fixed. The datewhhel seems to have been repainted completely. I think you may see something of the signature as the middle looks untouched, the signature will be the retailer but may have been the one who ordered the case.
Thank you everybody for your responses. The dial hasn't been repainted but yes, some #@$% went over the numbers as they had faded. The date wheel was removed and replaced with a disc with numbers stuck on it, presumably just to fill the gap. So the clock is not without it's problems but it does run, strike and the seconds hand works...all a bonus in my eyes. The rest can be fixed properly over time. I will try to see if I can find a UV light and see if there are any further hints on the dial. Does anyone have a picture of the hands which should be on the clock? Thank you
John Robey's book "The Longcase Clock Reference Book" Vol 2 page 611 has a picture of several styles of hands for painted-dial English longcase clocks. I'm still new to the forum. I've seen others post snippets of other books (for example, a picture from one of Tran Duy Ly's books) with appropriate credit. If it's okay and someone can provide guidelines, I'd be happy to add a copy of the figure from this book.
The hour and minute hand have the same pattern and would be brass though steel might still have been in use for the likely date of this clock. The patterns were not all the same but for the sake of replacement it doesn't matter as no one knows what the original pattern was. I'm sure some members here can post examples but you can just google or search the message board for 'English painted dial longcase clocks' concentrating on ones made after 1830 and look at the hands. I'm also sure some can advise where to buy them. I think I posted a link for some on Meadows & Passmore not long back and another member gave a source who can make them but hopefully there will somewhere in Oz.
Oh and good luck finding a name on the dial, he's quite likely to have been the one who put the clock together. Who knows it might even be Usher as he is listed in a reference book for clockmakers but unusually also made clock cases.
Oh and good luck finding a name on the dial, he's quite likely to have been the one who put the clock together. Who knows it might even be Usher as he is listed in a reference book for clockmakers but unusually also made clock cases.
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Here are pics from a clock of mine. I'm still researching but have reason to believe it's mid-1850's from the Newcastle-on-Tyne area. The hands match one style in John Robey's diagram.
Osborne? Tall Case Clock with S. Baker False Plate
Osborne? Tall Case Clock with S. Baker False Plate
Here is another set of hands. I think, however, the hour and minute hands are not a matching pair, though each represent a style from that era.
Help to identify this long-case clock?
Help to identify this long-case clock?
....and another point of reference. This shows the hands of a Scottish clock that I own from around 1830. The second hand is virtually identical to a couple of the earlier posts including yours.
Here is a shot with better resolution:....and another point of reference. This shows the hands of a Scottish clock that I own from around 1830. The second hand is virtually identical to a couple of the earlier posts including yours.
And here is a shot with better resolution:
View attachment 616119
Thank you again to everyone for their tips. especially the one about the UV Light. Sure enough I could just see it. It turns out it was made by William Pybus of Caistor, Lincolnshire UK. He was a clockmaker born 1776-1861 and began his business in Caistor in the early 1800's before retiring in 1945 due to ill health brought upon by a robbery at his store. From this I was able to find another of his clocks on the Big Wide Web and so have an idea now of which hands should be on it. It is interesting that the clock I found also had no legs...just a square base. I am now going to run around with the UV light to check out some of our other clocks from which the names have faded. Woo hoo!
Hi Love clocks, UV light in hand , you could open up a whole new insight into your clocks' history, hope you find out some more interesting things!
Presumably W Pybus was a family business, continued on way after the original wiliam had passed on.
David
Presumably W Pybus was a family business, continued on way after the original wiliam had passed on.
David
That's the plan. Half the fun is researching them. It appears William had a son called Henry, but he was a cabinet maker. There was a fire on his premises in 1961 and then he isn't mentioned again. Just says when William died he was survived by his wife and daughter. So assume that was that! I have a cousin in Norfolk who I might get to look into it a bit further as Caistor is just up the Road from her.
Hi LoveClocks. I think David’s point was that if William started his business in 1800 he would have been older than Methuselah when the business shut in 1945...
Loomes has two makers with that name in Caistor. He suggests they are father and son, he gives a date of 1783 for the first and for the second has born 1786(?) married 1808, died 1861. Obviously the second would be the one who made your clock.
Hi Love clocks,
Regards,
Graham
Pybus is an unusual name; the eminent 19th century watch movement maker Joseph Preston, in Prescot, Lancashire, had a nephew called Harry Pybus, (born 1874), who carried on the business, eventually single-handedly, dying in 1952. Possibly some relation, considering the horological links?
Regards,
Graham
Thats OK, we need a bit of intrigue and impossibly old clockmakers in this endless lockdown we have here in melbourne!!
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