NEW NAWCC

Discussion in 'Forums Help & Notices' started by TEACLOCKS, May 26, 2020.

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  1. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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    Anybody know what is going to be missing this time with the NEW NAWCC:???::???::???::???::???::???:
     
  2. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    the new site reflects months and months of hard work by internal teams and professionals brought in to deal with the complicated job of updating a rats nest legacy website that had been built up over years with duct tape and baling wire.

    there will no doubt be minor errors and omissions, or things that want to get looked at... but overall it's a marked improvement... a huge improvement. look and feel, responsive (adjusts for mobile devices), reorganized, etc.

    the best way to help make it even better is to report any functionality issues, typos, etc. to the web team so they can address.

    i don't have an easy link or email for such, but perhaps post here and others can relay the messages.

    in the meantime, i think we should all thank the people who built these for the truly unbelievable hours put in wading through the muck of the old site.

    i, for one, am extremely appreciative.
     
  3. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    We used to refer to that as "spaghetti code" many, many, many years ago when dealing with Assembler code which had been ported to COBOL programs. I don't want to try to imagine the tasks taken on here

    If there are any issues, would it be okay to start a Conversation in order to bring it to your attention Bruce-Tech? If not, who would be the best person or team to contact?

    Thanks,

    Bruce
     
  4. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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  5. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I tried; however, do not have permission to do so. I did take the opportunity to see what might have changed from the old site. At least one error found, a piece of functionality that was in the old site now needs a NAWCC log in to use (searching the index of old bulletins to see if articles do exist), a page makes some statement about "National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors keeps meticulous records" yet some records may not be up to date,.....

    However, it does make it easier for those using a smart phone, etc.
     
  6. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    what was the exact error message?
     
  7. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.
     
  8. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    are you currently logged in? would you mind logging out and then back in again to see if you can even start a thread in 'member comments and discussion'? you can start one called 'test - pls delete' and i will get rid of it....

    not my job, btw... just trying to help! :cool:
     
  9. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I suspect it is because I am not an active NAWCC member; thus, the thread is open to feedback from members only.

    Oh well.
     
  10. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    well, i think of you as an active member. :cool:

    i've copied your post above to the right thread.

    pls feel free to PM me any specific bug or problem reports and i can post them for you.
     
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  11. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Logged out and in; however, I cannot find the "member comments and discussion" that you mention.
     
  12. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    go to the main forums page:

    Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 5.43.02 PM.jpg
     
  13. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Bruce, do non-members see that section in the forum upon log-in?
     
  14. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I believe that particular area is invisible to non-members. I guess that's one of the advantages of becoming a member. There are MANY benefits ;)
     
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  15. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    they can see it, but do not have permissions to post since it’s ‘member discussions and feedback’... which is (sorry) kind of dumb, as we have many participants who we want to become members, and their feedback is (imho) essential

    Tim Orr ?
     
  16. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Shutt, got it correctly. The forum Tim posted a link to is not open to those who have not paid their NAWCC dues. Many former members are still very active here. One goal of the new web site is to persuade them to renew their membership by making it more valuable to on-line users.

    You confused me quite a bit by moving the post there.It is likely that many of us do not know what the site looks like to others. The administrators have multiple pseudo identities so they can check such things. I occasionally post as Jane Tester who is an NAWCC member and I browse, but rarely post, as Mike Tester who is a Registered User.
     
  17. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    yes, but if they are thinking about joining and are frustrated about something on the website we will never know. If they have a simple suggestion or even a bug fix, we will never know. If you want to perpetuate the idea that the organization is a closed one rather than an open one, fine. I think That this is a mistake, and that we should be aiming at the vast majority of nonmembers while making sure our actual members get what they need
     
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  18. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    There is no reason not to start a public thread in the Help and Notices Forum. During the initial shake out the team wanted to focus on NAWCC Member reaction.

    My real concern was that you moved his post to a forum where he could not see it.
     
  19. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    An error is a mistake only if you repeat it. I thank Bruce Linde as it opened up a discussion on how a non-member can respond.

    Other than the format changes, what is new on the website that could not be found before? Are there new offerings that would entice me to rejoin for the third time?
     
  20. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I don't know what the full extent is. My focus right now is toward improving the facilities I put there originally such as the Bulletin Search and the Hamilton ledger images.

    Specifically I want a high performance full text search of the Bulletin archive and a rationalized database of all the watch information we have been able to gather. The Waltham records database is closer to what I would like, but right now it is in the style of my https://awco.org.org site and the observation reporting facility needs more work.

    We are also planning to put a lot more of our video content on line. I think that most of that will remain public but we may include some video course material.

    What sort of thing would attract someone like you to join? :)
     
  21. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    no... i copied his post to the discussion to that management would get his input.



    every person joins or doesn't join for their own reasons. i joined and continue my membership because it's a relatively inexpensive way to support the organization that supports the habit that makes me really happy.

    while there will be some improvements to the website, i'd have to say that overall the answer to your question would be: if you want something additional there before joining, you probably won't find it... but folks are obviously welcome either way.
     
  22. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    oh, pls god: make it so!!!! :cool:
     
  23. Vernon

    Vernon Registered User
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    Dick,
    I joined the NAWCC to "unlock" all of the opportunities that were available to members. In my case, I wanted to expand my learning by being able to join a local club so that I could talk to individuals with common interest as well as attend nationals and regional events. After all of these years I still feel the same as the day that I joined and I want to support ( Financially) my hobby and interest. The Message Board is just an extension and adds value; to which I contribute separately. So Dick, what are you looking for in a NAWCC membership and are you willing to still benefit from the website as a nonmember?
     
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  24. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    My statement was based upon this quote from Tom. I did an extensive review of the new site and did not recognize anything new other than the presentation of the material. Thus, my question about what might have been added that I had missed.
     
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  25. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

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    I don’t ever think you’ll get a lot of new members without them knowing what it is exactly that they will potentially benefit from the subscription/membership.
    It’s like going to a store and buying a box that isn’t labeled.
     
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  26. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I agree with Powerstroke. What are the benefits for people to join?
     
  27. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    There is no greater joy than the joy of giving. It always surpasses the value of the gift.

    For what it is worth, I actually believe that.
     
  28. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Dick, we think usability is a value. There was no new material found or purchased for this upgrade,but it should be much easier to find what is there by the time we are finished with the rollout. As each of the pieces comes along, we will try to explain the benefit. The initial benefit is largely in the improved availability.

    We still have some rough edges to smooth over in the next few weeks.

    We will also be redoing the Forums to use the new styles and coordinate a bit better with the main site.
     
  29. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Sometimes you join a National Organization because you believe
    in what they do and want to support their vision, museum, and knowledgebase on line.
    The annual dues are about the same as me taking my family out to a nice dinner(which I haven't done recently).
    This forum (where people share so much knowledge) is a free service provided by the NAWCC.
    I pay my dues so that it can be here for everyone for free. All the people who
    work here are volunteers and we still pay an annual membership. Why because
    with think it's important.


    Rob
     
  30. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

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    This translates as you need donations. It’s going to be a tough sell with 40 million Americans out of work.
     
  31. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I don't need donations, but the NAWCC does. The assets are all products of the community that were given in the past.

    There are people in horology that do craft work and others who buy and sell providing essentially brokerage services. It takes all kinds to make a community. I have no problem with those who see it as a way to make some money. I even thought about doing that myself for several years. When I finally figured out how bad a salesman I am, I decided to go the other way.
     
  32. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    it takes resources and money to publish a bulletin. it takes resources and money to keep the lights on. the nawcc is larger and more complicated than you (generic) think. membership fees and bequests cover a big chunk, but it's always a struggle balancing needs, desires and costs.

    membership is a small but important way to help support the work that gets done here.

    yes, there are many volunteers.... but who manages and directs them? at some point... at multiple points, actually... money needs to get spent. someone needs to drive. someone needs to get paid to drive.

    i have spent more for an expensive dinner than a year of membership.... and had nothing the morning after. this place (organization, publications, message board, members) has given me an education, and brought me much happiness... and a not-so-shabby clock collection with some pieces my mentor keeps trying to get from me... who could ask for more? :cool:

    the information contained in historic threads and more in-depth bulletin articles going back decades should (imho) make yearly membership dues a no-brainer.... membership is a way to express appreciation and make sure (as already stated) the lights stay on long after our individual ones are out.

    add in vendors, scholars, documenting clocks and their histories over the years.... and a dozen other things the organization has to offer... and membership dues are really not that much.

    end of sermon. :cool:
     
  33. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    #33 Dick C, May 27, 2020
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    Giving comes in many forms other than money.

    It is interesting how this thread evolved.
     
  34. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
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    For what it’s worth, I became a member today. I did it out of appreciation of all I have learned here from those here now and the legacy wisdom available on this forum. I also joined because of the work involved upgrading this site. What pushed me over the edge and into joining was Bruce Linde’s comments in post #2 above relating some of the work put into this site, knowing little of that will be appreciated by those who use the site. I say that based on experience I’ve had in another company years ago who were also working on updating legacy systems.

    I simply want to support the work here and those that freely give of their time helping others like me fix their stuff.
    In short, it’s about giving back.

    Incidentally, the site doesn’t show I’m a member in my profile on the forum, but that’s not really important. I only mention it to show I am a member, and the cost of joining is worth supporting this site.

    John
     
  35. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    john - thx... you’ll get updated shortly.

    dick - appreciate your posts and the back and forths we’ve had in various threads. it’s that kind of positive engagement that originally swayed me... but there is no obligation. it’s up to the individual, and what’s right for them. i give what i can, tom gives a ton, some volunteer, some just vent... it takes a village. ;)

    thank u both for being part of it!
     
  36. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I agree.


    Rob
     
  37. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

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    I would like to make it clear that I am I. No way saying or intimating not to become a member. My point was that without many people knowing exactly what the membership entails, along with current economic situations, it’s a tough thing to roll out at this time. Looking from the outside, probably would have been better to roll all this out down the road a bit.
     
  38. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Somewhere there's a list of all the benefits of membership. Use of the library, including video's, free or reduced admittance to several museums, access to the Mart magazine that lists businesses who do specialized work that most of us can't do, lots of stuff you wouldn't be aware of without membership. The main site probably has a list of benefits somewhere.
     
  39. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Here are a couple of lists of tangible benefits from the new main site. What they don't list are the intangibles: the pleasure, pride, or excitement of learning something new about your horological item; of obtaining an item that is a piece of history or that tells the story of people and horology; of accomplishing that repair or restoration that you've been struggling with; of finding others who share your interest and also share your pleasure, pride, excitement - or pain when something doesn't go well; of finding a friend; of having fun. It seems that while the tangibles might bring an introduction, it's the intangibles that keep us coming back to both the live and virtual aspects of the organization. To me, definitely worth the price of membership and investment of time and energy volunteering.
    About | National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.
    Join | National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.
     
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  40. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
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    Very true regarding the current economic situation and how that may affect individuals here. There have been lengthy times in my life where the cost of membership would have been beyond my means, and that may happen to me again someday, but I will support while I can. While I would encourage others to join as well, each has their own reasons to join or not, including financial considerations. I hoped to be encouraging without being pushy about joining. If I missed the mark on that, my apologies to anyone who felt that way.

    John
     
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  41. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, all!

    A little irony here is that the COVID-19 lockdown gave me a lot more time I could devote to the new website. And a lot was needed. A blessing in disguise, I guess.

    Best regards!

    Tim
     
  42. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, John!

    And thank you! One of the things we hoped we'd be able to do is drum up some new members!

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
  43. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
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    :)
     
  44. Simon Holt

    Simon Holt Registered User
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    This thread prompted me to join up too yesterday. Does it take a while before the membership becomes active? Although I can log in, I'm taken to a page with this message:

    We’re sorry, your NAWCC account does not include access to this paid member content. Become a member by clicking below and get access to this content and much more.

    Simon
     
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  45. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
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    I had the same problem. I contacted Bruce Linde, and he suggested among other things to try to find a page where i can log out and then log back in.

    Warning: confusion ahead—

    I had to create a different password for the main site, which is different from the login on the message board. Both were needed today. Yesterday the same password for the main site seemed to work on the message board and the main site, but today I had to enter the old password to log back into the message board. Don’t know why; might be one of the undiscovered new gremlins on the site. Anyway, try logging out and back in.

    John
     
  46. Simon Holt

    Simon Holt Registered User
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    Ah, the old 'turn it off then turn it on again' trick!

    Thanks John. Specifically, I had to log out of the forums, then log back in to the forums, then I could get into the main site.

    But, if I try to log into the main site directly, I get the "restricted" message.

    Simon
     
  47. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I'll try to alert Tom McIntyre to your situation. He will be able to fix your membership issue.
     
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  48. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The single sign on is being modified to support gated access to member only documents. It may be a few more days before it is done.
    We are also beginning the Forum upgrade, will take a little time but is hoped to get us to only one login.
     
  49. Simon Holt

    Simon Holt Registered User
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    Thanks Tom. I'll give it a week and see if my issues have been resolved.
    Simon
     
  50. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I took the liberty of updating your membership display here on the forum. That is an option in your account page here.

    We are planning to integrate the memberhsip service here with our next upgrade, but presently it is largely manual.

    If NAWCC Members use the NAWCC Login button they should be authenticated for all sites. That does not currently work for our Registered Users who also contribute here, but that should be fixed during the Forum upgrade also (at least it is on the list :))
     
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