New Member here to learn

[Esq'z Me]

Just joining the forum and thought I should introduce myself.
I retired a few years ago from a career in the powersports industry on the technical side (i.e. after sales technical service support).
I've always enjoyed tinkering with and learning about mechanical things, and I've decided clocks and watches are seriously intricate mechanical devices worth messing about with.
I've got my grandfather's Elgin gold pocket watch that I'd like to return to service, and also my grandmother's Seth Thomas mantel clock that deserves to be on display again.
The clock being much larger and therefore easier to work on, I've started in on that for my journey of exploration and education.
It is a Seth Thomas Model No 99 Chime Walnut clock that hasn't run in decades. I've learned from reading here and elsewhere that the 124 movement is somewhat notorious. None-the-less, it appears to be in unmolested and complete condition. I'll start off with a good cleaning and lubricating and go from there. Steven Conover's "Chime Clock Repair" is on the way.
The movement is marked T# 1433, and I wonder if that is a date code?
Wish me luck ..here's some photos I just took:

 

[Rob M]

Welcome to the page! Conover's books are great. He has others that are beginner.... Might want to give that a read... Joining the NAWCC is a good first step. There are other resources here in the library including videos for beginners. Seeing it first is sometimes more effective than just reading then attempting.

To the issue at hand. If you have an option starting on a 1 arbor time piece or 2 (chime and strike) American clock you will be doing yourself (and the clock) a lot better service. One of the many versions the SF 89 would be a bit easier than the ST 124 or ST 113.... Do yourself a favor. Go to a couple of thrift stores and see what they have. Estate sales or auctions are also a good place to look. Don't forget Craig's List, etc. Either way you go - Good Luck.

 

[Esq'z Me]

Thanks for the welcome and advice Rob !!
I may do that, find a couple of cheap derelicts to start on. Already found a YouTube video overhaul of a ST124 that runs over 1 hour in length .... have to schedule time to watch it.
I'm going to do a good assembled cleaning and lubing as a first step on this one...maybe chime adjustment...but not planning to take her apart until I know more.

 

[wow]

Be careful in cleaning assembled and make sure there is no moisture left in the mainsprings when you are through cleaning. Enclosed mainsprings and moisture causes rust quickly.

 

[Rob M]

Not sure what you mean by an assembled cleaning. Most of us here are not proponents of a 'dunk and swish' process. Post above is spot on. An attempt at cleaning while assembled is likely to leave remnants of cleaner and gunk (and rust) in all the wrong places. Possibly making things worst than before. Recommend you start to look for the minimum tools you will need (that video will likely demonstrate a take down tool and winder). Most can be improvised and for a one time use there are work arounds. Again, check out the Conover book(s) and video for this type of information. Again, welcome and Good Luck.

 

[Vernon]

Hi Esq'z. it looks like you have a NAWCC chapter in your part of the state which could offer education and buying/selling opportunities. At the top of this page, you will see "Local Chapters".

You will want a set of letdown keys with handle, mainspring sleeve set and a winder like Ollie Baker to deal with mainsprings. Some people are creative and make their own tools.

Nice to meet you, Vernon

 

[Willie X]

I would suggest you leave that ST-124 on the shelf and start with a one train movement, or posable an older 2 train movement, as already suggested.
it's kinda like swimming, best to learn how in the shallow water. Willie X

 

[Richard.W]

• Welcome aboard !

• This is a great place to simply read and follow along. You can learn a lot by loitering. The library is also filled with all types of helpful data.

• Since you're already a member, the BEST thing you can do for yourself is start attending local Chapter meetings. (See the Local Chapters button at the very top of this page.) A lot of Chapters offer free clock classes. You'll want to check on that feature for sure.

I'm going to do a good assembled cleaning and lubing as a first step on this one...maybe chime adjustment...but not planning to take her apart until I know more.

By "assembled cleaning" if you mean scrub up the movement without taking it apart, then that's a place you REALLY don't want to go. The whole idea of cleaning is to remove the old oil and grit to the extent that wear can be accurately measured. Once detergent water is in the assembled springs and pivots it's nearly impossible to get out. After that, rust sets in and you're in worse shape than when you started.

Wear is the Number 1 reason clocks won't run. Finding the wear takes disassembly and thorough cleaning. You can't repair anything until it's disassembled anyway, so "assembled cleaning" doesn't help at any level. Think about it, in your profession were you ever able to rebuild an engine without disassembly ? It's the same with clocks.

• What I suggest is that you go on Ebay and buy an American-made time-only office clock from around 1890-1920. There are lots of these in the $35 to $70 price range. Disassemble/ reassemble that several times and you'll have an excellent start.



Feel free to write with any questions.

 

[Esq'z Me]

I am paying close attention to all the good advice here, and thank you.
I will not be doing an "assembled" cleaning by dunking in a wash. I understand all the good reasons given for resisting that urge.

I do have a small ultra-sonic cleaner to use when appropriate, used many times in the past for carburetors and such.
I am planning on using an aerosol non-residue brake clean product to wash off the accumulated dust and grit, and I have some clock oil on the way for what lubricating I can without disassembly.
This is just a temporary step while I study and learn. I'm on the lookout for a more simple clock to experiment with first.

I did remove the movement from the case for study and have it now mounted on a small bench vise and actually running along quite nicely. Haven't wound any springs, kind of watching them unwind slowly. Chime hammer mechanism seems to be doing its thing too!! So maybe this old clock is in pretty good shape, just in need of service.

Any idea when it was made? My best guess based on Google research is 1928 ?
Also in search of a key (TimeSavers is out of stock). My research says it is a #4/0000. 3 mm and 1.8 mm measurements.

Looking forward to understanding the inner workings of time pieces and hours of tinkering. I can see I will be buying more tools to add to my workshop.

 

[Elliott Wolin]

I am planning on using an aerosol non-residue brake clean product to wash off the accumulated dust and grit

I confess to doing the same on occasion, to get rid of cobwebs and such so I can have a better look at the movement prior to disassembly and cleaning. These days I use electrical contact cleaner. I recall I found it better than brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner, but I don't remember why.

 

[Richard.W]

More info...
• Timesavers sells the 4/0000 several ways. They won't be out of all. Try 10125, 19938, 10098, and you could always buy 2 independent keys. Sometimes their paper catalog is a better resource than the Search routine on their website.

• If the 124 movement is running, and you intend to pack it away until you are ready... then an area to concentrate would be specialty clock tools. I have found numerous tools at Dave's Watch Parts & Tools. You'll find his ad in the sidebar. His stock changes, so check back regularly.

• A let down tool is mandatory, but you can make one yourself in 20 min from an old garden tool handle. Simply drill and slot to fit the winding key, like so...

• Get magnification to see the detail with an OptiVisor, or similar.

• Clocks use parallel (straight-sided) screws, so you'll want a quality driver bit set, like those by Chapman.

• For all the wedge pins you'll encounter, I prefer a good set of "duckbill pliers", such as These.

• Clock oil, clock oilers, movement stands, etc will all come in time.

Hope this helps.

 

[Esq'z Me]

Thanks for the tips. I have an extensive collection of tools and a few magnifying devices. And bring a “tool junky”, I’m always happy to add to the collection.
So a “Let Down tool” is basically just a winding key with some leverage?
I can make (have in the past) simple special tools if I just know what they are supposed to do.

 

[Kevin W.]

I too suggest you put the chime clock to the side, adding oil to a dirty movement will not benefit it. A simpler clock like a 30 hour weight driven ogee is a good one to learn on and i am sure you can find one without much trouble.

 

[Esq'z Me]

OK...chasing cheap wind up clocks to learn on and I found a Seth Thomas 89 movement for $20...... Going to have a go at it. It is a strike only, not chime clock.
Now to acquire a few specialty items. Just ordered a "Test Stand" from eBay.
Any other suggestions for must have tools? and recommended suppliers?
Was hoping to find a book or 2 in the library, but no luck so far.
Guess I need to join the local chapter meeting next chance. I will look forward to meeting knowledgeable people in my vicinity.

 

[Wimberleytech]

So a “Let Down tool” is basically just a winding key with some leverage?

A winding key with some "slipperage."
The idea is to release the click and let the mainspring unwind in a controlled manner...slipping in your grip.