New Haven Westminster Chime Triple Plate how to get this off?

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Infused, Mar 18, 2019.

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  1. Infused

    Infused Registered User

    Mar 11, 2019
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    Hello, I'm brand new to this hobby, I have recently come across a New Haven Westminster Chime Triple Plate clock and in the process of cleaning it. I know this isn't the best clock to dive into, but its what I got, so learning time:) First thing I did when I received the clock was to see if it runs. the time train seems to run fine but the Westminster Chime whould not work unless I held the little lever then it would ultra slowly go, so I let down the mainsprings and took them out and inspected them. main springs looked good no cracks rust and plenty of springiness. I opened the movement up and on the back plate theirs a gear that dose not seem to come off, no sure what to do,pry it off or hit it with something? I think it needs a new bushing lots of play on the shaft


    back.jpg

    inside.jpg
     
  2. Isaac

    Isaac Registered User

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    If the springs all seem fine, there probably is something robbing the chime train's power on the upper portion (with the faster spinning wheels) of the chime train. Causes can be from worn pivot holes, bent pivots (if a mainspring previously broke, which I don't think happened with yours). The big issue with these movements is that the time train sometimes does not get oiled due to the sub plate being hidden and hard to get at with an oiler without disassembling the movement (and of course they're just a pain to work on in general). Do not pry off the wheel. If it is wiggling around, there is something else that is preventing the wheel from coming off.
     
  3. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    Infused, look closely, there should be a set screw between the cam and the wheel. You are starting off on one of the most difficult movements, after over 50 years experience I still dread seeing them.
     
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  4. NTimken

    NTimken Registered User
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  5. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    infused, NTimkin gives good advice to get the CHIME CLOCK REPAIR book. It is a must have book for this movement. If you have a favorite clock parts supplier they will most likely have the book also. Conovver uses 8 pages of print and pictures to describe this clock. He gives you a good understanding of how all the parts play together so that the clock can run properly. Best of luck.
    dickstorer, I agree with you.
    ..Bob..
     
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  6. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    The wheel (gear) in the upper photo - the one with the chime locking plate - as already mentioned, should have a small set screw just under the chime locking plate. After this screw is loosened that part should lift off. The lower photo appears to be on the front side of the clock behind the snail (which appears to have been removed). Its been a while since I've had one of these apart but I'm looking at one now and I believe this one, and the cannon pinion behind it, are all pressed on. It is in a difficult place to get under but I believe you can do it using a pair of screwdrivers to pry evenly from both sides. It will go a lot easier if you heat the small brass pinion gear for about 3 seconds with a small butane torch and pry before it cools.

    You can get Steve Conover's books directly from him at Your source for clock repair books He devotes several pages to this clock. Be aware that there are several versions of this movement. A sluggish movement can't really be diagnosed if the clock needs cleaning, which it probably does.

    Not my favorite movement but it's reputation for being a devil isn't totally deserved. First, its totally different from any other chime movement. The adjustments are also totally different and somewhat critical. There are an awful lot of parts to put back, but not really that difficult. I find that one of the difficult things is that this round movement is very difficult to hold in a test stand - everything is close to the edge so there isn't even a safe position to sit it down.

    It is unfortunate that you already have this one apart. It is always good to study just how the chime controls, and especially the chime correction system works before taking it apart. This is adequately explained in Conover's book.

    I'm interested in how you were able to remove the springs from the spring barrel? Do you have a spring winder? These springs are too wide to safely remove by hand without causing conning.

    Good Luck.

    RC
     
  7. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    You can do this but you might also consider going on eBay and buying a cheap Kitchen clock movement to tackle as a primer. They are large and easy to figure out. I would not want to see you get discouraged by working on a more complex movement and give up in frustration. You can do this but I would recommend Conover's book as stated above. A little hard copy support will help. Take pictures as you dis-assemble and even written notes. I guarantee you will not remember where all those little spacers and stuff went going back together when you thought sure you would.:)


    OOPS! Didn't notice that it was already apart.

    Good Luck
     
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  8. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    I agree with what everyone else has said, especially buying the Conover Chime Clock Repair book... his illustrations are very detailed. I enjoy working on them but don't often get one to work on so I need the book each time. Years ago I acquired a complete NH round chiming movement (not working) in a junk box at a horological auction and having a movement at hand for reference also helps when I start to put one back together since they are unlike any other movement you will run across. You will find these movements from time to time on ebay if you feel you need something to look at when reassembling. Some of the wheels in this clock are very small and if there is wear and you have to do any bushing work the depthing is very critical due to their small size. I have also noticed that the barrels in these movements need bushing work more often than most.
     
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  9. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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  10. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    That won't work for this one because there is a big old spring barrel right where the center post would be. However, I thing two such clamps articulated to grab a post on each side might do it. This movement I believe is too heavy to be held with just one clamp at an angle. I think someone here did make a two arm holder at one time.

    RC
     
  11. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    It shouldn't be hard to invent one that supports the movement by corner pillars. All you inventive rascals, get on it! :yoda:
     
  12. David S

    David S Registered User
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    This is what I use with my bench mount system. Not completely universal but handles quite a few movement types.

    test stand side view.jpg stand showing adjusting slot.jpg
    I have a couple like this. The bottom arm is usually fixed and the top one can adjust up and down. Middle arm is removed for larger plates. Feature in the arm prevents rotation in the slot. Can grab by the plates or the pillars.
    test stand 3.jpg test stand 90 degrees.jpg

    David
     
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  13. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    A challenge has been made. Who will rise to meet it? ;)
     
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  14. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    I don't normally use this style of clamps to assemble or hang a movement for testing but I have found they work very well with the New Haven round chiming movement since other options are limited.
    image000000 - 2019-03-18T185955.874.jpg
     
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  15. NTimken

    NTimken Registered User
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    The Parker movement stand, similar to one sold by Ollie Baker is sold by Merritts for $300

    P1297.jpg $300.00
     
  16. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm not sure how to post to each one separately, I guess I should have mentioned what I had for tools and info. I like to have pics to help me out and maby others, so heres were im at so far 0318191422.jpg
    I set it on a roll of tap for now the front part hasn't been disassembled yet
    0318191422a.jpg
    used a paperclip to hold the hammers(the part with the metal that go to the hammers) in order with washers so that I can put them back later
    0318191422b.jpg
    I found that water bottle covers work well for holding small things
    0318191423.jpg
    used a spring winder to capture the main springs
    0318191423a.jpg
    I used a c-clamp to hold it down when I used it cause I wasnt sure were I wanted it to live the c-clamp isnt in this pic(dont mind the messy desk:p)
    0318191424.jpg
    this was the first thing I got after the clock came chapter 6 has the New Haven stuff in it
    as for the part I cant get apart I still cant seem to see whats holding it but I see a spring wht what looks like a bent pin not sure it thats suposed to be bent or not 0319190130.jpg
     
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  17. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    Infused, re your last picture. I do not think it is a normal looking set screw with a slot. It probably has a square head with no slot, but it is still a set screw. I have never seen one that did not have a set screw.
     
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  18. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Infused, here are pictures showing both sides of that part of a New Haven 3-plate chimer that I have on my desk. Like dickstorer, I've never seen one without a set screw, but I know there is a lot I haven't seen. Look carefully to see if perhaps yours has a setscrew that's been wrung off. I do not recommend disassembling this assembly, but you should try to remove it from the shaft.

    Regarding the bottle caps parts sorter, on my bench I'm afraid those small caps would end up on the floor with me searching for scattered parts. May I suggest that you consider nailing the caps to a piece of wood.

    RC

    nh-lock-plate-1.jpg nh-lock-plate-2.jpg
     
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  19. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    Here is another picture from my junk movement. There is a set screw on both sides and they are not the square headed set screws used elsewhere on this movement. My set screws are just a small screw with a head for a flat screwdriver.

    By the way... a #2 clock key fits those little square heads perfectly.
    image000000 - 2019-03-19T091824.175.jpg image000000 - 2019-03-19T091824.175 (2).jpg
     
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  20. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    #20 Infused, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    Thank you for the pics and the #2 clock key trick. I will pick one up at some point,pliers and those square screws are kinda a pain, but hey it gets it done:) cant nail anything down yet I have a space that no one but me will tuch/ drop anything atm I just take extra care not to even look at it till im ready to work on the clock so greimlins wont steal my parts. As for the part at hand...
    Still cant find that darn set screw, Im thinking mayby 4 things, 1 its under the spring or 2 maby its a compressing fitting or 3 Its worn so well it is one with it? or 4 witchcraft
    I have taken more photos and was tring to rotate the part so you guys can see what im seeing and what i might have missed
    0319190130.jpg
    0319191405.jpg
    0319191405a.jpg
    0319191405a.jpg
    0319191406.jpg



    0319191406d.jpg 0319191406a.jpg 0319191406b.jpg
     
  21. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    #21 Harry Hopkins, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    I removed the part off my spare junk movement and took this picture from the back side so you might be able to see the orientation of the set screw. There is actually another set screw 180 degrees opposite on mine but that one is missing on mine. I remember reading that there are a couple of variations of this movement but I thought it only had to do with one type using an electric motor instead of mainsprings... obviously there could be other variations. I seriously doubt that it is just simply pressed onto a knurled area on the shaft because all other parts on this clock are held in place with set screws. Although after looking closely at your pictures I have to assume that your is held on by another means as I do not see any set screws like mine. You may just have to use 2 flat blade screwdrivers and put them beneath the wheel and gently twist them to pry it off.... then you will be able to see what holds it on.

    image000000 - 2019-03-19T152020.929 (2).jpg
     
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  22. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Thanks Harry Hopkins for more photos, I can see in yours the pin is indeed straight (furthers my desire to get it apart to fix it:p) im gonna hum and ha at it for a bit I think before I start prying (I sat with it for about 4 hours just looking at it and thinking)or i might just let it be there and move on with cleaning(which more questions and over sized photos:))
     
  23. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    I've never come across a Chime Lock Plate/Wheel without a set screw either but there doesn't appear to be one here. I have to wonder if it isn't a friction fit like a strike train gathering pallet uses. If so, it will difficult to remove. There are some hand and gear pullers which might do the trick without stressing/deforming the gear on the bottom of the assembly. There's some deformation of the brass around the pivot on the top so someone's been working on it. Perhaps that is how the spring anchor pin was bent.
     
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  24. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Do I need a tool to get this off and put it back on? sliver thing is my tweezers:)
    0321190028.jpg
    and for these types?
    0321190029.jpg
    and here is a small update on the tear down and clean
    0320190335.jpg
     
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  25. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Hi Infused,
    Your top photo is of the Strike Train's Gathering Pallet. They are almost always held in place with a friction fit. You'll need to lift it straight up so that you don't bend the pivot. Usually the pivot is pretty small and a gear/hand puller won't help much. I think most folks use two small screw drivers, one on each side. A good method if there is room is to use two paint can openers like these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/warner-4-5-in-metal-paint-can-opener/3032230?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-pnt-_-google-_-lia-_-133-_-painttools-_-3032230-_-0&kpid&store_code=628&k_clickID=go_625682584_34615003030_111134765470_pla-261249126137_c_9006731&gclid=CjwKCAjw7MzkBRAGEiwAkOXexIq8-Eq-EyyNBSFQTSOSxjkja36XPLQ3gOc4uDl3cS02j2v1PHEPGhoCNIQQAvD_BwE

    You can modify them by grinding the tips thinner. In any case, place two of them 180 degrees apart from each other and lift the gathering pallet straight up.

    As for your second photo, that looks like a nut/fastener of some time with a knurled perimeter. See if it will unscrew but don't force it. Looks like there is one right above it in your photo two. New Haven could be so screwy sometimes...:chuckling:

    Whatever you decide to try, don't force the issue unless you're absolutely sure that the part is supposed to lift or unscrew.

    It's good to have some penetrating oil on hand to help with stubborn fasteners.

    Good luck,

    Bruce
     
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  26. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    think giving it a 10 minet bath in ultrasonic cleaner whould help loosen it up?
     
  27. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    update finaly got it it poped off and hit me in the face but i got it yay! i use to screw drivers to pop it off
    0321190319.jpg
    0321190319a.jpg
    0321190319b.jpg
     
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  28. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Glad you got it off Infused. Do pick up a couple of those paint can openers if or when you run across them and get some penetrating oil too. You'll have much more control and leverage lifting parts like the Gathering Pallet. They probably wouldn't have been much help in your Chime Lock Plate since it has a gear on the bottom of the assembly and you wouldn't want to apply much pressure to it.
    On the matter of test stands
    "Test Stands" like Harry's example can be very useful. You can mount a movement facing either way. That can be helpful when you want to install the hands while the movement is in test. You can't always do that with some test stands. It can also support the bottom plate for reassembly. One of the things you should do with them is to use a little square piece of card stock (business cards or old playing cards) or plastic (old credit or gift cards). Place the shim under the screw as you tighten it against the movement's plate to prevent marring of the plate. They are called Hanging Assembly Posts. Here is one example from Timesavers: Hanging Assembly Post Kit Like Harry, I seldom use mine unless my other test stands are in use or I need to regulate a movement and I don't have its case. I always worry that the movement will fall off of the wall in some way so I usually put a box of bubble wrap under it. That's never happened, but I worry about it anyway so hopefully it won't.

    Here's a list of Suppliers: Clock Suppliers -- General/Supply/Tools/Repair/Service/Etc. •
    You'll probably be handing them significant quantities of your money as you get further into clock repair. :eek:
     
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  29. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Regarding the first picture (post # 24), glad you got it off OK. One word of caution. DO NOT polish the extended part of this pivot or you will have a problem keeping this part tight when you put it back.

    Regarding the second picture (post # 24) that part does unscrew. Some are steel, and some brass. If it's knurled on the edge it unscrews. Some later models had a simple brass split washer that is a friction fit.

    This one has an awful lot of parts to get back in the right place. Have fun and good luck.

    RC
     
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  30. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    After you managed to get the round chime locking plate removed were you able to determine that it is just a friction fit on the arbor or was it held in some other manner?
     
  31. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    just friction fit ill try to get a better photo of it
     
  32. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    I tried to get a shot of the arbor it has markings on it to me that look simlar to a drill bit so when its pressed to gether it must bite into the other pice in order to fit im thinking. Im happy that R. Croswel mentioned
    saves me time later I wont spend to much time cleaning on the pivot here is the shot
    0322190047.jpg
     
  33. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Not sure if I should start a new thread or if theres a way to rename this one, I want to keep posting about this movement but It mights start go away from how to take this off into bushings and such. should have named it New Haven Westminster Chime Triple Plate adventure or tear down Q&A. Everyone so helpful here
     
  34. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    #34 Bruce Alexander, Mar 22, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    That's not something I would expect to see for the purpose you describe. Perhaps someone did that after the clock was manufactured. Kind of like a lightweight knurling. The Chime Lock Plate Assembly still needs to be removable so you don't want it on too tight. it just needs to be tight enough not to slip once it's fully installed.

    Just to be clear, you should be sure to clean, and refinish the part of the pivot which forms the bearing with the brass plate's pivot hole. That would be the part of the arbor/pivot on the outside shoulder of the leaf pinion.

    A Thread does not "go away" unless it violates guidelines. Even then it may just get locked, or certain posts may get put into hidden quarantine. I believe that a Moderator or Administrator can edit your Thread's Title if you want them to. You can also ask them to branch the discussion into a new Thread although you can do that yourself by simply starting a new one and including a link back to this one in your first posting.

    As has been said by a number of experienced folks, this is not a beginner's movement. Hang in there and we'll try to help you through it but experience is the best teacher. I hope you're mechanically inclined. You must be or you never would have/should have started this "journey".

    Regards,

    Bruce

    Chime Pivot.jpg
     
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  35. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    I ask a lot of questions cause i'm nervous and don't want to break things. I agree experience is the best teacher. I'm getting some exp and a lot better at understanding the movement. Just taking it slow and studying it as I take it a part(and taking lots of photos:), so it can show me how it works or why its not working.
     
  36. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    You are definitely jumping into the deep end of the pool. I don't understand why the locking plate didn't have a set screw. That part assembly with the spring loaded backing plate is the heart of what makes this one work. There is no real "warning run" like most other clocks. When the lever is lifted from that locking plate the backing plate slips under the lever so it can't drop back into the same slot. Make sure the backing plate operates smoothly and wasn't damaged by the prying and twisting to get it off.

    It is a lot easier to work on any clock movement when one has another one to look at. Depending on how much you want to invest in this project, you might search eBay for another movement like this to use for reference, and perhaps it will have a locking plate with the usual set screw. We are not allowed to discuss active auctions but I did a quick check and found one "parts" movement and one complete clock with "make an offer". Search just for New Haven clock movement (with out Westminster or chime), then with these descriptors.

    RC
     
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  37. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    I was studying that locking plate for about 30 mins after I got it out and I saw that the metal disk under it was stuck(not from bending but years of gunk) I was sorta careful except hitting my self in the face when removing it. Not sure how to get the blue oil gunk out,I have no plans to disassemble it unless I have to. Im think a bathing it ultra sonic cleaner and some dish soap followed by hair dry to dry and some isoprpyl alcohol, I may pick up another clock to use as a reference its a good idea. I have to hold off on it I need to use money to get tools for bushings and bushing
     
  38. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    #38 Bruce Alexander, Mar 23, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
    That's some golden advice from RC regarding the Chime Lock Plate.

    An Ultrasonic Cleaner and dish soap is a good start, but you'll usually need something with a little more "kick" to it.

    I like to apply a little Kerosene in situations such as this. It's really a good solvent for old, dried out lubricants.

    If you're not already familiar with the use of Google to Search the Message Board Archives may I suggest that you take a look at this tip: Searching the Message Board using Google

    For an example, try entering this search phrase in a Google Search Window: "cleaning solutions site:mb.nawcc.org"
     
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  39. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Any advice on what size bushings I should get? Im thinking about getting a KWM Style Hand Reamer Set from timesavers, and a boarch set for large clocks from clockworks they have a small set but I dont think thats what ill need for this one.
     
  40. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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  41. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    those links were helpful thank you still a bit confused till I get a set in my hands to see, my logic is drill hole to dia of bearing, hit barrin in place smoooth dia till pivot fit, drink a beer?
    I'm in the "deep end of the pool":p so I shall get this clock working(hopefully). I'm rather enjoying my self seeing how actual craftsmanship was done,(granted it dosen't work atm but to see the tooling marks and saw marks on the gear insides) its just like wow (good way the way the knew what there were doing) ,slow and true is how i'm gonna go. It is a eye opener to how much time and energy went into making this work and (hopefully) making it re work :).
     
  42. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Infused likes this.
  43. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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  44. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    is a Smoothing Broache need after the cutting? if so whats a good brand
     
  45. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Infused,

    I can just about guarantee you that the answers to many if not most of your questions will be readily found in the archives. Immediately right at your fingertips, any time day or night. For example, this thread goes over the topic pretty well: smoothing broaches - are they essential, vote please??

    As you read more, you'll see that there is really no consensus. That will apply to almost any topic you read here. Some folks find them very useful while others have no use for them. I have a set and I use it, but I don't think that they are essential. It really depends on the bushing technique you intend to use.

    Some folks will do the final sizing of a bushing with a smooth broach while others will only ensure that any rough edges left by their cutting broach are smoothed down with them.

    You will definitely need a good set of 5-sided cutting broaches though.

    If you have the funds for a set I would suggest that you get Smoothing as well as a Cutting Set. If you have to prioritize based on your budget, I'd say the Smooths can wait. Others may, and probably will, disagree. Again, it depends on your technique.

    Generally speaking, I'd advise you to stay away from tools or steel made in India or China if you can afford to. They are usually cheap and of low quality.

    Hope that helps a little.

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  46. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Infused, it's probably a good time to take a deep breath and read some of the many threads here about bushing installation and methods. There is a lot of confusion, disagreement, good advice and bad. Probably THE most important concern with bushing installation is that the hole in the finished bushing must be absolutely centered over where the original hole was. The second concern is that the bushing (especially the pivot hole in the bushing) be absolutely perpendicular to the plate being bushed. As you can imagine there are a lot of ways that have been proposed, very few give guaranteed accuracy, several work OK for most ordinary clocks if the operator has a good eye and some practice, and others rely mostly on faith and luck. In the ideal case the old pivot hole will be reamed to a precise undersize for the bushing, perpendicular to the plate, centered over the original hole, and with perfectly parallel sides. The bushing of the correct size (correct for the hole and correct for the pivot) is pressed in place. No further operation is required.

    In the real world, the hole in the bushing frequently needs to be enlarged a bit to fit the pivot. Methods vary but the goal is the same. A guided cutter will yield a hole with parallel sides. Tapered broaches result in a tapered hole. If used, best to apply the broach equally from both sides so the "high spot" is in the middle. For most applications the slight taper is inconsequential. Smooth broaches should be used following tapered cutting broaches. There is no reason to use a smooth broach (which is tapered) in a factory bushing that hasn't been broached, or a bushing that has been enlarged by drilling.

    When the opening in the plate has been reamed by hand, even with the correct size reamer, the hole will usually not have true parallel sides and will likely be oversize. Various methods of peening etc. and often used by "hand bushers" to tighten the bushings. The results are sometimes OK and sometimes not so OK. I'm not putting a dog in this fight but please do read some of the old posts on bushing work and decide what is likely to work for you. One word of caution though, the clock you are working on is NOT one that will be forgiving of inaccurate bushing work.

    RC
     
  47. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    #47 Bruce Alexander, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    Infused, are you sure we can't talk you into boxing this movement up for a little while and working on a simple Time or Time and Strike movement first?

    My first movement was a Herschede quarter-striking bim-bam with a rack and snail mechanism. It is an unusual design with two racks gathered by the same pallet. My mentor asked me why I didn't begin with something simpler "like most mere mortals do". He sent me an Ingraham 8-day time and strike to disassemble, clean, reassemble and return to him for evaluation. I did so and with that experience under my belt I went immediately back to finish up my Herschede.

    You have Steve Nelson's ( I meant Conover's) book on Chime Clocks. That's a good start but it assumes some basic knowledge. Do you have any other basic books on Clock Repair?

    What do you do for a living? Do you have a lot of mechanical experience? You may be a from-scratch model builder for all we know.

    Before you do any bushing work on this movement, do you think you can clean it and put it all back together right now? You said it ran but that the chime train was sluggish and the Chime Lock Plate's arbor had some slop. It may have just been dirty and out of proper adjustment. What if you just cleaned it up thoroughly, reassembled, adjusted and lubricated it? It could be good practice and it won't cost you a dime more...just some of your time, which you are probably going to have to spend a lot of anyway. If, that is, you are a mere mortal like most the rest of us here. :)

    Not trying to discourage you. Just hoping you won't become discouraged.
     
  48. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    #48 Bruce Alexander, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    Infused,

    If you haven't already done so I'm going to tie two possibilities together for you:

    RC may have diagnosed a problem you noticed on your initial evaluation right there. Did you catch that?

    I really don't think you're ready for this movement. That's no reflection on you nor is it an evaluation of your mechanical attitude or skills. I can only really relate based on my own experiences. When I was at the beginner's stage that you currently are in, based on the experience I've accumulated over the last nine years, I know that overhauling a New Haven triple-plate movement would have been beyond the personal and shop resources I could bring to bear on the task as I first started out.

    Before you get in any deeper and start permanently changing things that will be very difficult to undo if poorly done the first time, I implore you to simply clean the movement, put it back together, adjust it, lubricate it and see if you can't make it work at least as well as it did before you took it apart. That's no trivial task. Chances are that if it is simply cleaned and lubricated, it will run much better even in the presence of bearing wear and tear.

    As I mentioned earlier, all you have to lose is a little time, but in learning more about the movement, it will not be time wasted. At your young age, you've got a lot more time to invest in this "hobby" than most of the folks here. If you keep at it, you have the potential to become a master horologist if you can find (or make) the time and spend the energy outside of your main current occupation.

    We'll continue to help as much as we can, but in the end you'll learn more by doing and you'll learn most from your mistakes (and hopefully from the mistakes of others as well).

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  49. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Infused, the first step in any clock repair is to, if at all possible, diagnose exactly what the problem is and what needs to be done before taking it apart. At this point, you apparently have the clock apart so the logical course of action is to clean each part and inspect for damage. I would be in no hurry to just put it all back together to see again that you still have a problem. The wheels, pinions, pivots, and pivot holes are no different from any other clock except perhaps there are more of them. Pivot holes that are worn enough to cause a problem will visually have an egg shaped hole. If you find any, it makes no sense to put the movement back together without installing a bushing. This is a nice clock but it really should not be where you learn bushing installation. You can do this, but I implore you to set it aside and get a simpler movement of little value to practice bushing work until you can get it right. You may find that the pivot holes are fine. When a clock like this runs OK but does not chime, the problem is more likely not worn pivots and pivot holes. Normal wear will usually stop the time side from running first, so you may get lucky. Too bad that you took it apart before diagnosing the the problem, that should be a lesson learned.

    On the plus side, you can leave the spring barrels out and check the operation using hand power. Main difficulty is the number of parts involved and that it is unlike any other chime clock. That can be more of a problem for one with experience because this one just doesn't play by the same rules. Looks like you are already in the deep end of the pool so it's learn to swim, just be patient and take time to do one step at a time and resolve to do it right - practice and ask questions and research. When I find myself in deep water with a clock I own I just tell myself that I'm going to fix it, or fix it so no one else can fix it! I promise the next one will be a whole lot easier.

    RC
     
  50. Infused

    Infused Registered User

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    Your right, rest assured im not going to rush in and just start cutting it up or anything like that, I know that it will need to be rebushed in most of the areas based on the ware that I can see on the plates. Just trying to get things ready for when the time comes. As im cleaning it up and looking at it I follow the paths of the power distribution(what im calling it for lack of better words) Between the main springs to the gear trains and the path which the power whould flow in order to get to the end. example I know the chime isnt working so I followed the chime train as I am cleaning to check that there's not ware in bushings or pivots( which theres a few spots there is on bushings)based on the location of the mainspring the path the power will flow each gear will need to be able to distribut power with minimal friction in order for the chime to work. once thats in working order the hammers also need to have a minal amount of friction to be able to play when the clock "triggers" them to hammer(chime). Im doing this for each gear train. Just making notes about them so I can come back to them when the time comes to do the correct repair if it needs it. I hope that makes sence.
     

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