New Haven and Sessions collaboration ?

[Chris.K]

I have a New Haven mission style time only clock with alarm currently for sale, which I have had for years that has a Sessions movement in it. There are no "extra" screw holes for mounting and winding arbor aligns perfect as well as the alarm wire that goes down to the alarm ,at the base of the clock. I have been contacted by two people saying they have the same situation, New Haven cases but Sessions movements. In those correspondence one had a mission wall clock with New Haven labels and the other was a large shelf clock t/s mission with NH labels and Sessions works. My question is this- In the early 1900's NH decided to open a "mission" style line but since they already had their clock lines going and ran short of movements for the missions and turned to Sessions for some movements early on. Is there and info out there to support my hypotheses? thank you. Chris..

 

[new2clocks]

My question is this- In the early 1900's NH decided to open a "mission" style line but since they already had their clock lines going and ran short of movements for the missions and turned to Sessions for some movements early on. Is there and info out there to support my hypotheses?

I cannot answer your question directly, but search through the forums for:

Gilbert Occidental

Ansonia Triumph

Waterbury Oxford

The cases and ornaments and finials are exactly the same.

Identifying a clock by the case is, IMO, a not very reliable method to identify the movement that should be housed in that case, since doing so assumes that the particular movement maker also had a carpentry shop to produce cases. (In the watch world, it seems to be more accepted that a movement maker did NOT make the case, especially with pocket watches.) It cannot be overlooked that clock movement makers contracted with casemakers to supply cases and those same cases were supplied to any movement maker who wanted to purchase that case.

Another concept to consider is whether a movement maker sold 'loose' movements to the trade - wholesalers, retailers, jewelers, etc. - and the trade cased the movement themselves. This was an accepted practice with the German clock trade. Whether it was prominent in the U.S. clock trade, I am not sure.

As a result, it is possible to see for sale today two clocks with the exact cases - one with a New Haven movement and one with a Sessions movement - and each clock is completely original. Whether this is accurate with NH and Sessions specifically (your original question), I do not know, but it is certainly a reasonable possibility.

Regards.

 

[Chris.K]

I cannot answer your question directly, but search through the forums for:

Gilbert Occidental

Ansonia Triumph

Waterbury Oxford

The cases and ornaments and finials are exactly the same.

Identifying a clock by the case is, IMO, a not very reliable method to identify the movement that should be housed in that case, since doing so assumes that the particular movement maker also had a carpentry shop to produce cases. (In the watch world, it seems to be more accepted that a movement maker did NOT make the case, especially with pocket watches.) It cannot be overlooked that clock movement makers contracted with casemakers to supply cases and those same cases were supplied to any movement maker who wanted to purchase that case.

Another concept to consider is whether a movement maker sold 'loose' movements to the trade - wholesalers, retailers, jewelers, etc. - and the trade cased the movement themselves. This was an accepted practice with the German clock trade. Whether it was prominent in the U.S. clock trade, I am not sure.

As a result, it is possible to see for sale today two clocks with the exact cases - one with a New Haven movement and one with a Sessions movement - and each clock is completely original. Whether this is accurate with NH and Sessions specifically (your original question), I do not know, but it is certainly a reasonable possibility.

Regards.

Normally I would agree 100% that you do not brand a clock by case style. I have gone through every Sessions catalog that I could fine and found nothing on this clock then found it in a New Haven catalog from 1914 I think, and had this clock in it along with dimensions identical to mine. Here are a few pics of the "not so common" layout of the clock. Chris..

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Normally I would agree 100% that you do not brand a clock by case style. I have gone through every Sessions catalog that I could fine and found nothing on this clock then found it in a New Haven catalog from 1914 I think, and had this clock in it along with dimensions identical to mine. Here are a few pics of the "not so common" layout of the clock. Chris..

View attachment 737927 View attachment 737929 View attachment 737930 View attachment 737931

As far as I know, NH did not obtain movements from Sessions.

I suspect marriage, but others may know better.

RM

 

[Chris.K]

As far as I know, NH did not obtain movements from Sessions.

I suspect marriage, but others may know better.

RM

That is what I originally thought till I was contacted by 2 people, one had a labeled NH with Session works and the other had a NH labeled t/s shelf clock with Sessions works. I haven't found any info yet that suggests collaboration. I have seen some of the past threads but the question still lingers.

 

[Willie X]

There are lots of "lingering" questions in the clock world. No need in loosing any sleep over it. Just enjoy what you have there and you can rest assured no one else is going to worry about it.
Willie X

 

[Jmeechie]

I wonder if it was more of an Issue of supply needs like a shortage of specific movements or an outside source supplying cases to NH and Sessions also acquired a small quantity to fill a production run? I‘ve seen where other manufacturers supplied cases, dials and such to other clock makers. Just a though.
Cheers,
James