New Elgin addition

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Britannicus, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Britannicus

    Britannicus Registered User

    Apr 26, 2016
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    Hi All - just picked this little guy up -

    1888 era Elgin 11j Hunter movement - but placed in an rather nice open faced case as a "sidewinder" - I'm assuming this is an example of clumsy re-casing of a hunter watch, or could this be an original case and it's always been a sidewinder ? - she runs really well - has been in my pocket all week and has lost about 2 minutes.

    Pocketwatch DB sites this as an 11j configuration - but looks like 15j - I've not had the movement out yet, so I'm assuming this is an example of the "cosmetic" jeweling on the upper plate only. Was this done purely for cosmetic reasons, or was there some theory that having a jeweled bearing on 1 side only offered some advantage over a completely unjeweled pivot ?

    I've had a frustrating week - Came over from the UK on business to Philadelphia - had hoped to make it out to the NAWCC museum while I was here, but heading back never having found the time ! so near and yet so far




    P_20190506_180133.jpg P_20190508_183611.jpg P_20190508_183723.jpg
     
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  2. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Nice!

    I think the style of the pendant is younger than the movement, so I'd guess the case isn't original. After 131 years, it's hard to be sure in any case (hahaha - 'in any case').

    11 jewel watches look like 15, till you have the dial off. Then you can see that there are no jewels in the pillar plate, only the upper. 11j movements LOOK fancier than 7j movements, and the companies that sold them even made technical arguments for jeweling the upper plate, but I suspect it was all just marketing, to make them look like a higher grade than they actually were.
     
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  3. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Oct 25, 2018
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    Hello and good day! You have a grade 10, 11 jewel Elgin watch. Looks great!. Many many hunting case movements are recased as sidewinders, and although there isn't any obvious extra screw marks, you will probably never have a definitive answer one way or the other. A shot of the trademark inside the back of the case would help.

    Here's a listing from a catalog found in the informational pocket watch threads for this forum, with a description and original price of your movement.

    Have a great day!

    Elgin-Mixed-SFM1895.jpg

    Edit:. I'm with Doug on the case style. I think we posted answers at the same time.
     
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  4. Britannicus

    Britannicus Registered User

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    Yeah, was kinda my thinking, I'd love to know what those "justifications" were must have had marketing department working overtime
     
  5. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    I could argue the concept behind the 11 jewels.

    Personally my watches sit face up when running over night. That means over half the time I'm using it, the pinions are running in those jewels. Now I'm no master watchmaker, but it seems that would definitely help the longevity of the movement.
     
  6. Britannicus

    Britannicus Registered User

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    Rick, just read your post after Doug. Would it have been common to case as a sidewinder back in the day when new? Can't really see an argument for putting a new hunter movement in a new open case... Unless you just happened to have on or other spare
     
  7. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    There were people who did case them that way, but I would assume that
    any hunter movement that you see in an open face case is "probably"
    a re-case. But they are out there. I know, I think I have one;)



    Rob
     
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  8. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    I love sidewinders, and have a bunch of them. Only maybe 4 out of a couple dozen I have had or currently have, are original in my opinion.

    Sure people cased them that way, it's just hard to prove, and nowhere near as common as you would believe from all the sidewinders you see around.

    Yours may have been a second casing after the first one broke or wore out. Someone may have just paired them together last year. Hard to tell.

    At any rate, enjoy it!


    This thread has a ton of great info about sidewinders

    Original "side-winders"
     
  9. Britannicus

    Britannicus Registered User

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    Interesting read, the movement is lever set, with the cut out in the right location for a side winder. I guess this would have been introduced at the time of re casing from a case intended for a pendant set.
     
  10. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Not necessarily. Lever set watches, whether OF or HC generally have their levers in the same place relative to the winding stem.
     

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