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New Clock, no real identifying marks. German Vienna Regulator.

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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I purchase this clock at an local consignment auction. Auction said "Antique (1812) Vienna Gran Sonniere clock" but haven't been able to find any identifying marks for maker. There are two sets of numbers on the clock and there is something etched underneath the "□1931k" writing (not below but literally taking up the same space) but also can't quite make it out. I don't believe it to be a clock from 1812. From what I can tell it's most likely a 1920s-1930s German box clock style clock but I'm pretty new to this and could be completely missing the mark here. (Edit - not a box clock)

Any advice would be appreciated! Can post more pictures if needed.

Screenshot_20210925-114213_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20210925-114220_Chrome.jpg 20210925_110022.jpg 20210925_110009.jpg 20210925_114843.jpg
 
Last edited:

new2clocks

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Welcome to the forum.

Auction said "Antique (1812) Vienna Gran Sonniere clock"
Your clock is not from 1812.

From what I can tell it's most likely a 1920s-1930s German box clock style clock b
Your clock is not from 1920 to 1930 and it is not a box clock.

It is a Vienna Regulator and it was most likely made some time from 1890 to just before WWI.

The clock is most likely German. Although it is unmarked, we have contributors who can identify unmarked German clocks. They should be along to provide their opinions as to the maker of your clock.

Regards.
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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Welcome to the forum.



Your clock is not from 1812.



Your clock is not from 1920 to 1930 and it is not a box clock.

It is a Vienna Regulator and it was most likely made some time from 1890 to just before WWI.

The clock is most likely German. Although it is unmarked, we have contributors who can identify unmarked German clocks. They should be along to provide their opinions as to the maker of your clock.

Regards.
Thanks! It's at least a start! Lol
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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[ATTACHREUSE]

Welcome to the forum.



Your clock is not from 1812.



Your clock is not from 1920 to 1930 and it is not a box clock.

It is a Vienna Regulator and it was most likely made some time from 1890 to just before WWI.

The clock is most likely German. Although it is unmarked, we have contributors who can identify unmarked German clocks. They should be along to provide their opinions as to the maker of your clock.

Regards.
Ya I guess the weights give it away as a Vienna Regulator. Saw some misinformation earlier. I originally wondered if it was Gustav Becker or Kienzle but with no identifiers, doubt it.
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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[ATTACHREUSE]



Ya I guess the weights give it away as a Vienna Regulator. Saw some misinformation earlier. I originally wondered if it was Gustav Becker or Kienzle but with no identifiers, doubt it.
A clock with weights does not make it a Vienna Regulator, but a Vienna regulator must be weight driven. :)

There are various definitions of a Vienna regulator - (1) a strict (purist) definition, (2) a more inclusive definition and (3) a very generic definition.

Your clock has two of the most important requirements that a clock must contain in order to be a Vienna regulator - weight driven and deadbeat escapement. Although not confirmed, I am pretty sure your clock has a deadbeat escapement.

I do not believe your clock would meet the purist definition but would meet the more inclusive definition.

In any event, enjoy your beautiful clock!

Regards.
 

Yahagi

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Dec 16, 2019
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This is not a German clock. It was probably produced in the period specified by new2clocks in Austria. Extra clear photos could help. The hour and minute hands do not look typical.

I think it will be very difficult to identify the manufacturer. Perhaps someone who knows clocks from Vienna will suggest something.
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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This is not a German clock. It was probably produced in the period specified by new2clocks in Austria. Extra clear photos could help. The hour and minute hands do not look typical.

I think it will be very difficult to identify the manufacturer. Perhaps someone who knows clocks from Vienna will suggest something.
Here is are some some other photos, I can take some other photos after work.

Screenshot_20210925-153339_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20210925-153345_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20210925-153413_Chrome.jpg
 

Yahagi

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Dec 16, 2019
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Bridge at the top - it was used in Germany very rarely and much earlier. (RSM / Muller & Schlenker)
The arm at the bottom is typically Austrian. I have a lot of similar examples from Vienna.
But this chest - it is not typically Viennese. She could be from Cieszyn (Tieshen). A similar clock has just been shown.



Shield, pendulum and scales with these patterns - could be Cieszyn.
But here's another mechanism. Completely incompatible with F&G. I haven't seen one like that.
The Germans, apart from Becker / Lenzkirch / Kienzle (Tchehoslovakia), did not make mechanisms for 3 weights. So what remains is Austria, especially Vienna.

1632610960793.png

Sjjulian showed photo. The mechanism on it is mounted crookedly. I would also like to see the exact fixation in the box.

NN01.jpg
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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Bridge at the top - it was used in Germany very rarely and much earlier. (RSM / Muller & Schlenker)
The arm at the bottom is typically Austrian. I have a lot of similar examples from Vienna.
But this chest - it is not typically Viennese. She could be from Cieszyn (Tieshen). A similar clock has just been shown.



Shield, pendulum and scales with these patterns - could be Cieszyn.
But here's another mechanism. Completely incompatible with F&G. I haven't seen one like that.
The Germans, apart from Becker / Lenzkirch / Kienzle (Tchehoslovakia), did not make mechanisms for 3 weights. So what remains is Austria, especially Vienna.

View attachment 673501

Sjjulian showed photo. The mechanism on it is mounted crookedly. I would also like to see the exact fixation in the box.

View attachment 673500
Are these what you are looking for or something different?

Thank you again so much for your time, patience, and knowledge!

20210925_194233.jpg 20210925_194238.jpg 20210925_194144.jpg
 

Yahagi

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Dec 16, 2019
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I don't know who the producer is. This is not a typical construction. I believe 90% is someone from Vienna. 10% - from another city in Austria. In my opinion, Germany is out.

What surprises me is the displacement of the dial in the hole. This is a de-luxe mechanism ... it couldn't have come off the factory like this.
Unless the photo turned out so badly. Perhaps everything is OK

1632651246908.png



If the mechanism is really so crooked - please check if there are any traces of a different mechanism fastening, or if the entire back plate has not been replaced.
I won't tell you anymore because I don't know :)

It's a very nice clock. Congratulations.
:) NN02.jpg
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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It definitely is off by that much, I'll keep investigating it and see what I can find. So best bet is that at some point in the lifetime of this clock, someone may have changed a few things thus why it's so difficult to find the manufacturers mark?
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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Thank you again. Ya really happy with the purchase, it's in great shape and a great looking clock. Now it's a mystery to be solved .
 

Yahagi

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Dec 16, 2019
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In Vienna, there were small watchmakers' workshops in which several people worked. These were manufactories, not factories. Some signed their clocks on the dial, but not all. There was no such custom. I tried to figure it out somehow ... I have several dozen photos of various weighing mechanisms from Vienna. I tried to group them somehow. I can't, unfortunately ... :(

Perhaps there is someone at NAWCC who has paid more attention to such manufactures in Vienna and understands it better. I can't tell you anymore.
 

Sjjulian

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Sep 25, 2021
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You've already helped so much. I really do appreciate it!
 

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