Need some help with an Illinois transitional

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by Paul Raposo, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #1 Paul Raposo, Jul 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
    I picked up this Illinois with plans to resell it. The person I bought it from said the setting needed an adjustment.

    When I wind the movement either with the crown or a key the barrel slips inside the movement.

    When I pull out the setting lever and wind it the hands turn and so does the barrel. If I wind it in the direction to wind the barrel turns and if I wind it backwards the gear train turns.

    The spring isn't broken or slipping as I can feel the arbor turn the spring and it's still attached at the T end.

    The serial number is 700515.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Update: Now the hands turn with the setting lever opened and the barrel doesn't move, but it still moves then when setting lever is pushed in.

    I removed the barrel from the movement and spring isn't broken and winds when I use a key on the arbor.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Looking at the gear train, could the barrel be slipping because the center wheel safety pinion is loose?
     
  3. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Feb 11, 2005
    4,069
    13
    38
    Camarillo, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That is certainly something to check. Probably the first thing to check.
     
  4. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thank you for posting your comment, Dave.

    I ended up taking the movement apart and sure enough the pinion gear had been twisted off the pinion. Not sure how to proceed.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  5. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Feb 11, 2005
    4,069
    13
    38
    Camarillo, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think you need a new wheel assembly.
     
  6. darrahg

    darrahg Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 22, 2006
    1,174
    2
    38
    retired
    Houston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Check and see if it is friction fit. I know some Rockfords are like that. Just make sure the tab fits into the slot when pressing it on to the arbor.
     
  7. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #7 Paul Raposo, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
    Thanks for your reply Darrah. I've noticed the entire pinion is loose within the gear wheel and I don't know if that's normal. Even when the pinion gear is screwed down tight the gear wheel itself turns on the pinion so when I wind it up the barrel is turning the gear rather than being held in place so the mainspring can't wind inside the barrel.

    I think the wheel needs to be staked to sit tight on the pinion but I'm not sure which end to stake down--the side with the pinion gear or the side without the pinion gear.
     
  8. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2000
    2,747
    8
    38
    The wheel is fine. This Illinois model doesn't have a threaded safety pinion. The pinion locks on with 3/4 of a turn. This pinion has a problem with not staying in place.

    I have successfully fixed many of these with a specific method that works. If I were to mention my method, I would be severely chastised by the purists on this MB.

    Tom
     
  9. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

    Apr 20, 2013
    1,964
    5
    38
    Doctor
    Linköping, Sweden
    Country Flag:
    Starts with "s" and ends with "uperglue"? ;)
     
  10. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    2,897
    9
    38
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    Could also start with an "L" and end with a "ock tight"!
     
  11. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2000
    2,747
    8
    38
    You are correct. I've fixed at least a dozen that the owners told me were unfixable. Just a small drop of superglue where the pinion fits on. screw the pinion on, let it dry and reassemble. The fix will hold the pinion in place, but will break loose if the mainspring breaks.

    The only reason old time watchmakers didn't use superglue is that they didn't have it.

    Tom
     
  12. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What can be done about the loose gear wheel itself? It spins on the pinion even when the pinion gear is screwed down.
     
  13. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
    Donor

    Nov 4, 2005
    727
    1
    18
    Cambridge, ON Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I used the superglue tip and it worked perfectly. The watch now winds and sets correctly and is currently running. Thank you everyone for your help with this :clap:
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Need help Illinois Forum Date
Need help with removing the movement Watch Repair Oct 11, 2017
Need Help Measuring Roller Jewels Watch Repair Sep 27, 2017
Need help sourcing and/or replacing a broken pallet jewel for a Waltham 1892 Watch Repair Aug 22, 2017
American PW Need Help with an Illinois Lever Set Watch Repair Jan 19, 2016
Electric WW need help on illinois pocket watch Watch Repair Feb 26, 2009

Share This Page