Need help with newer Swiss clock

[deloid]

I don't typically restore clocks made after 1950 or so. I am doing this as a favor to another repairman.

This St. Aubin clock (I think 1970's) is now cleaned & prepped in the typical manner. The strike train is fine but the time side is sluggish. All bushings and pivots are perfect. The only area that I can isolate and feel too much drag is between the mainspring barel and the second wheel. The barrel is fine, the second wheel pivot is straight and highly polished. The other side of the second wheel has a pinion that fits completely through the plate and is held by a widened arbor that is also highly polished. It seems to me that the drag is completely coming from the large pinion bearing on the plate.
I don't know these clocks but I wonder if this may have called for a heavier oil like Moebius D5. I tried it dry and with a light clock oil...a bit better with light oil but not enough.

I'm hoping someone here knows this system and what the proper lubrication might be and if I may be missing something.

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Are you sure the wide diameter is not a bushing that is rotating?
Being on the other end of the second wheel, it shouldn't
have a lot of load on it.
A thicker oil would work better than a light oil for high load.
That's all I have.
Tinker Dwight

 

[Dave Diel]

I use Moebius D-4 on all lower pivots and it works great. Although the viscosity of D-5 is 3X that of D-4, I think it would work just fine, considering the fact that the speed of the lower pivots is between .02 and 1 revolutions per hour. Most clocks seem to show noticeably more "vigor" with the microgliss oil.

 

[deloid]

Thanks for both of your comments. I'll try some D5 tomorrow and follow up here. A couple of shots of the problem child:

 

[Tinker Dwight]

I'm still wondering if it is in fact the bearing surface.
Looking at things, it would have to be pressed on.
It could even be a ball bearing hiding there.
Tinker Dwight

 

[dAz57]

Thanks for both of your comments. I'll try some D5 tomorrow and follow up here. A couple of shots of the problem child:

I did one of these a while ago, the only thing I can think of is the endshake, with the wheel mounted by itself and the washer and circlip fitted does the arbor still have endshake between the plates?, If not you may need to fit another thin washer under the circlip.

 

[deloid]

That friction wheel does feel like there is a ball bearing in there but it spins freely.

 

[deloid]

Well, can't beat experience with these clocks. i think your idea is spot on. That has to be the solution!
Nice movement overall though except for all the clips. Agree?

 

[dAz57]

Well, can't beat experience with these clocks. i think your idea is spot on. That has to be the solution!
Nice movement overall though except for all the clips. Agree?

No I like the clips, very nice movements to work on, I have a smaller version in at the moment, I'll pull the movement out tomorrow and check it, looks like it has the same setup

 

[deloid]

dAz57,

I tried a 2 thousands shim then a 4 thou. The endshake didn't improve enough to spin the train with a partially wound spring. When I push manually on the pinion (concentric pressure), the train does spin freely without the escape wheel attached.
Someone else worked on this before me and this came partially disassembled so I don't know if it was supposed to have a spacer and what thickness it had. Would you have time to check yours?
Thanks,
Dean

 

[deloid]

dAz57,

I tried a 2 thousands shim then a 4 thou. The endshake didn't improve enough to spin the train with a partially wound spring. When I push manually on the pinion (concentric pressure), the train does spin freely without the escape wheel attached.
Someone else worked on this before me and this came partially disassembled so I don't know if it was supposed to have a spacer and what thickness it had. Would you have time to check yours?
Thanks,
Dean

Thanks! Got it!!
I stopped making punching out small washers out of my shim stock and jumped to a brass dial washer (flattened) and after some help pushing the washers down, got the clip in and it works well (free and good friction clutch).

 

[dAz57]

Ok thought as much, your clock doesn't have the original washer and clip, the washer is about 0.6mm thick and the wire clip is 0.5mm thick, it fits exactly the slot in the end of the arbor, I made a tool to fit between the minute wheel and plate, this was made from a piece of 0.6mm mainspring.

I used a hollow punch to press the minute wheel down on the arbor then slipped the prong tool in, then it was a simple matter to fit the washer and clip, the clips must get loose after a long while, fall off and get lost, then the wheel and arbor lose endshake and jam the time train, I had the same problem with this clock, fortunately the washer and clip were still there, I tightened the clip and it works fine now.

Note the washer is round and flat and has a cut away section to allow the hour wheel to be removed or fitted without removing the clip or washer.

 

[dAz57]

Ok just to point out with the correct washer and clip the wheel compete with tension washer and minute wheel can be removed from the movement, the minute wheel may not come straight off due a burr raised up by the wire circlip, I just fitted the minute wheel end into a watch lathe collet and use the tail stock to compress the tension washer then lightly clamped the collet to smooth the burr by turning the headstock while holding the wheel still.

This wheel and minute wheel are meant to be assembled first before it goes back in the movement.

 

[deloid]

You are brilliant!
I am certain that others having trouble with this fine movement will find this thread and be so thankful for your ingenuity.