Need help with a KoMa

[RaceOn]

Hi All,

I've been lurking here for while trying to get ideas on how to fix my wife's clock, but now I'm up against a wall. I'm new to these clocks so please bear with me.

I have a KOMA miniature 65 that I cannot get to run. So far I've disassembled, cleaned, lubricated and re-assembled. New suspension spring too. It will run for about three minutes and then slowly stop.

I had the clock "repaired" by a local clock shop about five years ago. It ran so-so for about 18 months then quit working. Not wanting to pay another $130.00 to this guy again I decided to give it a try. Bought the Horolovar book and had really good intentions on getting this thing fixed. Well to make a long story short, after 11 months my wife "asked" me to get it fixed.

Everything appears to be free with no binding anywhere. I measured the spring that was in the clock and it measured .06mm, not the .076mm it was supposed to be. I ordered a 14B from Timesavers and what I received was a .06mm. That is what they say it takes. They are the pros so I just put it in.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Any and all suggestions will be sincerely appreciated.

Regards,
Pat

 

[RaceOn]

Hi All,

I've been lurking here for while trying to get ideas on how to fix my wife's clock, but now I'm up against a wall. I'm new to these clocks so please bear with me.

I have a KOMA miniature 65 that I cannot get to run. So far I've disassembled, cleaned, lubricated and re-assembled. New suspension spring too. It will run for about three minutes and then slowly stop.

I had the clock "repaired" by a local clock shop about five years ago. It ran so-so for about 18 months then quit working. Not wanting to pay another $130.00 to this guy again I decided to give it a try. Bought the Horolovar book and had really good intentions on getting this thing fixed. Well to make a long story short, after 11 months my wife "asked" me to get it fixed.

Everything appears to be free with no binding anywhere. I measured the spring that was in the clock and it measured .06mm, not the .076mm it was supposed to be. I ordered a 14B from Timesavers and what I received was a .06mm. That is what they say it takes. They are the pros so I just put it in.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Any and all suggestions will be sincerely appreciated.

Regards,
Pat

 

[shutterbug]

If you've been lurking here for awhile, I'm sure you've noticed that the clock has to be "in beat" or it will not run. What you're looking for is an even amount of swing on both sides of the escapement "click". Use the smallest amount of swing possible and adjust it by turning the saddle (where the top of the suspension spring hooks) a VERY SMALL amount until the clock has the same amount of swing on both sides. Be sure she's fully wound. If this does not work, give us more details of what you're seeing. You could also lower the fork a little, sometimes that will do it.

 

[kalaxxu]

hi pat

i can only help you with my very recent experience with another koma.

according to some helpful friends here ( and after i sent pics ) the backplate of my clock is no. 1392 and it is supposed to take the 14b spring which as you correctly say is 0.076 mm
but when i tried that one on, it simply worked to fast, gaining hours.
then it was a hit and miss thing until i found out what this clock was really supposed to take.
and .. it was the 0.06 mm spring. the same thickness you said timesavers gave you.

i got it working accurately with that one and i have the bob adjustment screw down halfway the thread. so it seems to confirm that 0.06 should be the right spring to fit.
maybe the horolovar book shows a wrong dimension here ?

as to get it working. shutterbug gave you a very good suggestion.
bob swing on my koma is not more than 200 degrees. max. get the distance from upper block to fork correct first.
mine worked with a 6 mm clearance. no less, no more.
and then get the thing in beat.
easy to do.
and it should work fine giving the works are clean and oiled.

i'm no expert, but i worked on my clock and it's running perfectly now and keeping fantastic time.


patrick

 

[RaceOn]

A little additional info; It apperars that the anchor pin(?), (thing that the fork moves back and forth), is bent to one side. Not front to back, but to one side. I'm sure this is not correct.

Shutterbug; I've seen "beat" mentioned many times on this board and thought that might be my problem. I will investigate that right away. I'm not entirely clear on how it is done, but I will experiment. Am I correct to assume that getting the clock in beat is the first priority? Thank you for the info.

Patrick; I followed your post quite close so I am aware of the suspension spring differences. Right now I am just trying to get my clock to run, be it fast or slow, then I will shoot for the right spring. Actually, it was your post that got me back to work on my clock. I printed out the entire post and am using it for reference purposes. Thank you.

With the help of all the good folks on this board, I am confident that I will have my wife's clock running in short order.

Regards,
Pat

 

[kalaxxu]

hi pat and thanks for your reply.

although i'm by no means an expert, i know for sure that if the clock is not in beat ... it simply will not work.
no big deal to get it in beat.

i used a crimping plier as my tool. it's flat and has long handles. and you need long handles to rotate the block ever so slightly clockwise or anticlockwise. and the jaws have these semi circular cutouts which fit the round upper block perfectly.
anyway, i just told you what i used. you could use long nose pliers if you're more comfortable with that. or a special tool you could buy for the purpose. ( waste of money ? )

so, you hear the tick on one side as the bob rotates and see how much the bob turns until it stops. then it ticks again on the other side of the rotation and see how much further it goes until it stops again.
that's it in a nutshell.

you got to be sure that the overswing is equal on both ends of the swing.
if it isn't, grab the upper block with your choice of tool and rotate the block in the direction of where you want to increase the overswing.
easy does it !!
small rotation, until it has the same overswing on each end.
got it ?
i just counted fast after each tick and made sure i counted up to the same number on the other side.
but you can make marks instead or anything else that pleases you to be accurate.
ok ?
try it.
it is much less complicated doing it than trying to explain how it's done on paper.

cheers + courage + good luck.


patrick

 

[RaceOn]

Hey Patrick, thank you for your reply.

I am working on this beat thing, but I must be doing something wrong. According to the instruction sheet for my clock I am suposed to turm the pendulum 1/2 turn either clockwise or counterclockwise, then release it. I do this and the pendulum swings about 360 degrees. I then watch the escape mech. and see how far the pend. moves after the tick. The problem is that the pend. moves slower and slower, and after about five minutes it stops. After I first start the pend., it seems like the stop point after the tick is very close in both directions. Even as the pend. slows it seems like the stop points are correct. Am I doing this wrong?

Also, I have the fork at 6mm from the upper block as directed.

I have the clock wound fully, leveled, and the pend. fast/slow adjustment about 1/2 way down the adjuster.

It just seems like the pend. needs a little more push(?) or something to keep it going.

For what it's worth, when we first got this clock, I would turn the pend. 1/2 turn to start it going and the pend. would swing just about 360 degrees and keep swinging at about 360 degrees.

I hope that you can understand what I am saying. Anyway, as always any assistance will be appreciated.

Regards,
Pat

 

[Andy Krietzer]

Pat,
You mention the bent pin, can you post a picture here of it, or email me a picture. I think that needs to be fixed first.

Andy

 

[RaceOn]

Hey Andy. Thank you for your response. A picture of my bent anchor pin is at;

http://home.sprintmail.com/~pmbarrett/

I hope the photo is clear enough to get an idea of how bent the anchor pin is. I don't know if this is serious, but I doubt that it is supposed to be bent. Can you confirm?

Any assistance will be appreciated.

Regards,
Pat

 

[leeinv66]

Hi Pat, I will jump in here, That pin may be your problem. Or, at least part of it. Straightened out the pin and then try to put it in beat. It will never run like it is.

Cheers
Peter

 

[RaceOn]

Hey Peter, thanks for the input. I straightened the pin and it is now in beat. It has been running for a couple of hours now, but it is quite fast. I turned the adjustment wheel on the pend. almost all the way tight to the slow side, but it still takes about 50 seconds to complete 8 beats. I'll look at it again in the morning and see just how much time it gained.

I'm just thankful to everyone here for the help. I'll get this thing working right yet.

Regards,
Pat

 

[shutterbug]

If you can't adjust it with the knob far enough to get it down to 8 beats you probably have the wrong suspension spring. Not to worry - you can get come emery cloth and "thin" the spring to make it go slower. Carefully grip the spring between the two sides of the cloth and move it from top to bottom of the spring about 5 times (use pressure, but not enough to break it or bend it). Try it for a day, and do it again until it's right.

 

[RaceOn]

Hey Shutterbug, great idea. I did as you instructed and the clock came within spec. Had to do it three times to get it right, but it worked great.

Then in my infinite wisdom I took it apart to clean everything before final assembly and when I went to re-install the spring.... well let's just say that I screwed up. I just ordered a new spring. This time I will order what actually worked in my clock, a .0023, plus one on each side of it.

Until the parts arrive I'll be on hold.

Regards,
Pat

 

[RaceOn]

Hi All,

Well, I finally got my Koma clock running like it should. I want to thank everyone that helped me along the way. Without your help, the clock would still be in pieces on my work bench.

I'm sure most of you already know what I went thru but, I think first timers will find the following quite interesting. In order to get my clock running properly I had to take emery cloth to the suspension spring. When I started out the spring was .0025, so when I ordered my replacement springs from Timesavers I ordered .0023, .0022 and .0025. The "sanded spring" now measured .0023 so I started out with that as my replacement. The clock ran way too slow. So, I installed the .0025....still too slow. I ordered .0030 and .0032 from Timesavers. Well, it was the .0030 that did the trick. What was interesting was that the .0025 (before sanding)that made the clock run properly, was NOT a Horolovar spring, but all the replacements were. Additionally, the Horolovar book calls for a .0030 spring for my clock. So I guess if you want it done right the first time, get the right parts. Do it right and do it once.

I really did enjoy working on this clock, so much so, that I snatched a non-working Kundo off e-bay. My wife thinks I'm nuts but, for me it gives me a challenge.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all!!

Regards,
Pat

 

[harold bain]

Pat, you just proved to everyone that if you are going to use the Horolovar clock guide, you should also use Horolovar springs. The guide was meant to accompany Horolovar spec springs.
Congratulations on completing your repair
Harold

 

[shutterbug]

Pat - I fear we've created (another) monster! I first got the bug by fixing a Kundo too, and now have about 40 400 and 1000 day clocks in my collection. When I added pendulum clocks to my interests, and then chiming clocks my wife banished me and my "babies" to one room of the house (although she will allow two clocks in the living room at a time). So ... be cautious and wear a helmet just in case :biggrin:

 

[alan_737]

Hi, I bought a 400 day Koma. The bottom part of the suspension is missing. I tried to figure out what is missing but didnt have a clue. Any advice?? Post here are the pictures for your reference.

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Alan,
You´re missing the lower block and a part of the suspension spring in it. The rest of that spring looking out at the bottom of the suspension spring guard is kinked,so best is to order a complete new spring or even a readily fabricated unit consisting of top block,fork and bottom block. To id Your clock we need a clear picture of the back plate minus the cover of the suspension spring.We then can direct You which spring/unit to order.
Burkhard

 

[KurtinSA]

Burkhard is right about the picture. But based upon the logo and the straight alignment of pivots on the left side of the plate, it appears to be #1392 in the repair guide. Unfortunately, it lists two sizes for the suspension spring, 0.0032" and 0.003". It also lists two sizes of the main spring, because the barrel size increased over time. If you can accurately measure your existing spring down to that kind of accuracy, then you would find what you need. Barring that, you could buy both sizes and then see which works in the clock...or you could buy the thicker spring and if the clock runs too fast and can't be regulated, then you could thin down the 0.0032" to 0.003" and see if that works.

Kurt

 

[alan_737]

As suggested I took off the suspension cover but as shown in the picture attached, not marking there. Anyway, hope you guys can id it. BTW, there are 2 brass brush fell out when I unscrewed the screw, was it supposed to go with the screw?? And I did attach a picture of the base which shows cracks, it is usual to have that?? I supposed I didnt have a good buy. Is this I supposed to order for replacement??

 

[Dells]

The two brass bushes are there to stand the spring guard off the back plate so there is clearance for the spring, you don’t need to undo the screws totally just loosen them a few turns then lift the guard off.

 

[etmb61]

Use the .0032" spring.

The other size is for a shorter pendulum, no 66 in the repair guide.



Eric

 

[KurtinSA]

Those brass bushing were there to hold the suspension guard on. Typically, one only turns the screws a few turns which then lets the guard be slid up and off the screw heads. As for the base, yes they can crack over time, especially if not stored right. Not much you can really do in that situation.

Kurt

 

[alan_737]

The two brass bushes are there to stand the spring guard off the back plate so there is clearance for the spring, you don’t need to undo the screws totally just loosen them a few turns then lift the guard off.

I see, so the brass bush goes thru the screw, right? The instruction was not clear for 1st timer Hope I can put back. Can I purchase one of the suspension replacement set??

 

[Dells]

Yes you can get a replacement complete torsion spring but you can also get the parts IE spring, top & bottom block, fork, separate and make it up yourself, not sure where from in your country though.
Dell

 

[alan_737]

Yes you can get a replacement complete torsion spring but you can also get the parts IE spring, top & bottom block, fork, separate and make it up yourself, not sure where from in your country though.
Dell

Do you have any suggestion the site to get the parts?? Or anyone ??

 

[whatgoesaround]

Normally we would say Horolovar, but right now not sure when it will be functioning again due to the passing of the owner, which all here are touched by. TimeSavers, Ronell, clockworks, merritts. Make sure to get the Horolovar brand of suspension springs from whoever you use; they are much more reliable.

 

[Dells]

There is also HS Walch, cousins, but they are in uk but in your country you can probably get them from that well known auction site if all else fails.
Dell