Need help syncing a Hermle 1050-020 movement, please

Clockinit

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Hello All...I just re-assembled this movement and thought I had put it all back together the way I 'found' it...But Alas!! All has gone awry!!
The movement won't chime on the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 hours... (won't even go into warning) It'll chime on the hour and run thru the 1/4, 1/2 and stop after the 3/4 hour. The strikes are all KAFLEWEY whilst the chimes goes thru that progression...What is the proper syncing procedure here? I thought the chime wheel/cam and the 3/4 hour stopping cam had to be synced...Yes? No? I'm not sure if the star cam on the center arbor is lifting properly...I'm a little stymied...
Any input, as always, would be greatly appreciated.....:banghead:

Bob

sc3.jpg sc2.jpg sc1.jpg
 

Willie X

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Adjust the chime lock disk so the chime warning pin is stopping at the 1 o'clock position. Then loosen the chime sequence disk an position the disk to where the pin or lever is exactly in the center of any notch.

Lastly you will usually have to adjust the ratio wheel and/or the intermediate gear so that the 4 descending notes will start and stop during the shortest (1st quarter) cycle of the chime sequence disk.

With practice this can be done in a minute or two. But, it's a good idea to test the operation many times, just to be sure it all good.

Willie X
 

Clockinit

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Hi Willie...Hey, at the risk of sounding thick...can you give me a little more clarity?....say, in novice terms..? The warning wheel with the pin is the wheel that drives the fly?? Yes? The locking disk is the higher of the 2 cams? on the left? and the chime sequence disk is the R/S lower cam? correct?
When do I loosen either or both of these two ? and which is the ratio wheel? is the intermediate wheel the smaller wheel on the back plate?
Sorry for the multiple question marks...I'm just a little confused ..It seems lie I'm overthinking it here, or something....

Bob
 

Willie X

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Just completely loosen, or remove, the right disk with the 4 slots. Then allow the chime train to run. It should stop quickly. When it stops look at the position of the warning pin. If it's at the 1 o'clock position then the stop disk is correct, if not make it so. Hold this position and put the chime sequence cam back on, as instructed in post #3. The clock is now timed and it's just a matter of matching the first quarter chime hammer lifts to the shortest chime run as in post #3.

Note, the 4 notes of 1st quarter are exactly repeated as the last 4 notes of the 3rd quarter sequence. If the 1st quarter is correct the other quarters pretty much have to be correct also.

More notes, no hammer should lift during the warning and the fan should always turn free for about 3 rotations before the first hammer starts to lift. The fan should also run for about 3 rotations after the last hammer drops. IOWs the hammer has a specific window where it runs. To close to either end of the window can spell trouble. Hope this helps,. Willie X
 

Clockinit

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Just completely loosen, or remove, the right disk with the 4 slots. Then allow the chime train to run. It should stop quickly. When it stops look at the position of the warning pin. If it's at the 1 o'clock position then the stop disk is correct, if not make it so. Hold this position and put the chime sequence cam back on, as instructed in post #3. The clock is now timed and it's just a matter of matching the first quarter chime hammer lifts to the shortest chime run as in post #3.

Note, the 4 notes of 1st quarter are exactly repeated as the last 4 notes of the 3rd quarter sequence. If the 1st quarter is correct the other quarters pretty much have to be correct also.

More notes, no hammer should lift during the warning and the fan should always turn free for about 3 rotations before the first hammer starts to lift. The fan should also run for about 3 rotations after the last hammer drops. IOWs the hammer has a specific window where it runs. To close to either end of the window can spell trouble. Hope this helps,. Willie X
I think I got it Willie...Let me give that a whirl and ill get back to you...Thanks for the comeback;)

Bob
 

Clockinit

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I think I got it Willie...Let me give that a whirl and ill get back to you...Thanks for the comeback;)

Bob
Willie...Thank-You, Thank-You!! I Got the quarter hour chimes and hour strikes all straightened out....YAY!! I just need to synchronize the chime drum to the chime selection lever...it's off, and screwing up the way, and the when the hammers are lifting. I'll get it though!!
Now, having worked thru the process as you laid out, it should only be a moment or two to do it again in the future!!

Grateful as always,
Bob
Tracerjack...I printed out the link and will try to follow them...I'll let you know...Thanks!

Bob
Tracerjack...reading thru the instructions in the link, line for line it all made sense..With that being said, it made applying Willie's advise
very simplistic...Thank You for the input!!

Bob
 

Clockinit

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Willie...What is the simplest way to adjust the chime selection lever to the chime drum? I can't seem to get it to align with the proper position for the 3 different chimes...?.?.?.?

Bob
 

wow

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Willie...What is the simplest way to adjust the chime selection lever to the chime drum? I can't seem to get it to align with the proper position for the 3 different chimes...?.?.?.?

Bob
Bob, the little set screw that releases the drum adjustment must be loosened slightly and the rod adjusted right or left to set it. Set the lever at the lowest (Westminster) setting. Then slide the rod and drum so the center of the outside pin on the drum lines up with the lift on the outside hammer. Then tighten the set screw and try it. As you know, the 1/4 and 3/4 after has the 1234 notes chiming in a row. Get it right there and all the rest should be right.
 

shutterbug

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I like to set them with one of the other tunes. The Westminster is the shortest of the three. My feeling is that if you get the others right, the WM will be right too .... but that doesn't always hold true if setting with the WM. On all of the chimes, the hammers fall in sequence on the quarter and then again at the end of the third quarter. That's the easiest place(s) to set them.
 

Clockinit

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Sorry for being a little thick here :mallet: ...Is that the set screw on the left of the rod (by the front plate)? or the set screw at the drum?

Bob
 

shutterbug

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The front side sets the time duration for each chime. It's the back side where you sync the tune to the timing. I think that's what you want to do. Loosen the set screw on the big wheel, and it will probably turn by itself as you turn the drum. If it won't, you'll have to remove it, then put it back on. It's a little fussy to do, but you'll get it.
 

Willie X

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If you are talking about the chime selection. I like to make sure the selection lever is firmly in one of the 8 note positions (like Whittington) and with the chime running, sight along the plane of the lifting cams or pins. Adjust the positioner cuff so that the correct chime is playing and the tips of the lifting pins (or cams) are running dead center across the tips of the hammer lifting pieces. This is a close adjustment, so check all the chime positions while you are at it.
Willie X
 

wow

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Sorry for being a little thick here :mallet: ...Is that the set screw on the left of the rod (by the front plate)? or the set screw at the drum?

Bob
Bob, it’s the set screw near the rear of the drum that loosens the silver rod.
You can see it on the left lower corner of your third photo.
 

Clockinit

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OK...Almost .got it...I was having a little trouble as the cuff was not spinning freely when I loosened the set screw.. It was getting hung up...I mean, REALLY stuck, where the set screw had scored the rod. I had to remove the rod and burnish it smooth to get it to cooperate.. So, right now I believe I'm close. I'm gonna go back at it in a little bit. I noticed that the chimes are acting sluggish as hell. They were smooth and melodious (is that a word?) before I tore it a part.. So i saw some posts, that were suggested reading at the bottom of these threads, and I think they talk about this very problem...
I swear..The chimes sounded beautiful before, but the clock was running slow and I had to go and 'fix' that problem..I don't even know yet if I did correct that issue, I've been so consumed with these chime issues...YEESH!!!
 

Clockinit

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Update on my progress...Happy to report that we're chiming and striking as we should be!!! Thanks one and all for the input..
I can always count on this forum to pull me out of a conundrum...You guys are like comfort food!! Always able to count on ya's
to bring my feet back on the ground!!!
BIG THANK YOU!!

Bob
 

shutterbug

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:thumb:
 

disciple_dan

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Ok, I am really confused.
Then slide the rod and drum so the center of the outside pin on the drum lines up with the lift on the outside hammer. Then tighten the set screw and try it. As you know, the 1/4 and 3/4 after has the 1234 notes chiming in a row. Get it right there and all the rest should be right.
WOW, I tried this for the Westminster chime as indicated on the dial selector switch (all the way down) According to the Hermle instruction manual, the hammer furthest from the movement is #1. When I lined that hammer up with the furthest lobe from the movement (lobe/pin) on the drum, at the quarter hour it would run all 8 hammers consecutively from 8 to 1(movement>) So that didn't work on mine.
Now, according to the Hermle manual, the sequence for the 1st quarter of Westminster chime is 3453. That did not work for the one I'm working on.
So what I had to do to get Westminster Chime was to line up the #1 hammer with the 3rd lobe in from the outside (<outside) and the hammer sequence now is 6541. I'm either an idiot or a genius. You may have already decided which one I am but I need to know.
What is going on here? Thank you, Danny
 

disciple_dan

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Note. I wanted to say that after testing all the tunes with the setup I have they all seem to be working ok. I'd like to know why the Hermle manual has conflicting information.
Thanks for all the great help, Danny
 

Willie X

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These, and probably all cocks, change/evolve over time. Any written material is usually way off date, being as the clock in question has been in production for around 50 years.

They also make mistakes, like everyone else ...

Willie X
 

disciple_dan

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So, are you saying I'm a genius then, Willie X?
Thanks for all the help with this clock and with the good business practices. I think I have it working right now. Just some last checks and a spot of grease here and there.
I'd still like to hear your take on it WOW. You always seem to be the one that helps me most with the chiming clocks.
Thanks to everyone, Danny
 

disciple_dan

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Well, thanks for the early post that lead me to it. Have a great night, Danny.
 

shutterbug

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I just trust my ear on chimers. Different manufacturers used different configurations, and they can get really confusing if you have to depend on your eyes alone. This is especially true on tube chimers, when the manufacturers wanted the tubes in "pretty" configurations.
 

disciple_dan

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What confused me the most was the Hermle manual. Every other Hermle chimer I've worked on had a hammer sequence for WC as 1234. According to the Hermle instruction manual (not specific to the 1050) it called for hammers 3453. The sequence that worked for the one I'm working on is 6541. :banghead: I'm not sure of the other tunes but I will go back and check. It's been running well all night and chiming correctly on all tunes. Life is good.
Thanks again, Danny
 

wow

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What confused me the most was the Hermle manual. Every other Hermle chimer I've worked on had a hammer sequence for WC as 1234. According to the Hermle instruction manual (not specific to the 1050) it called for hammers 3453. The sequence that worked for the one I'm working on is 6541. :banghead: I'm not sure of the other tunes but I will go back and check. It's been running well all night and chiming correctly on all tunes. Life is good.
Thanks again, Danny
Dan, if you forget the manual and just focus on the four descending notes heard at 1/4 after the hour and the third set of four notes at 3/4 after the hour, you will be better off. Or…, you can set the tune to Whittington and use the eight descending notes at the same quarter hours. The eight hammers should fall in a row from highest note to lowest note. If you get the 1/4 hour and 3/4 hour right, the rest will be right. Just my suggestion. Hope it helps.
Will
 

disciple_dan

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focus on the four descending notes heard at 1/4 after the hour and the third set of four notes at 3/4 after the hour,
Thanks, Will. The thing is this model does not use the 4 descending notes. Not in order anyway. So, you are saying play it by ear regardless of the order the hammers fall in. I get it now. Actually, I got it. It's working fine now.
Here's a video of All the tunes. I think, I can never tell SM and Witt apart. I think I missed Whittington. They all work though. Thanks for the help,
Have a great afternoon, Danny
 

wow

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Sounds great, Dan. Yes, when I said “descending” I should have said “descending in pitch” with Westminster. With the eight note tunes it descends both in order and in pitch.
 

Willie X

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Yep, a genius. You figured it out despite the instruction manuel. :)
Willie
 

disciple_dan

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Thanks, Willie. I think I'm one of those guys that have to learn to be genius, sometimes more than once. As long as I'm learning, right?
Thanks to all for helping me learn to be a genius, Have a Happy day! Danny
 

disciple_dan

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Yeah, Will. For some reason, I seem to translate "descending" as "Hammers descending from to movement out." I think most people that say descending are meaning "in pitch" I'll try to get that straight. Thanks, Danny
 

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