Need help in identifying the watch manufacturer

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by myasnik, May 20, 2020.

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  1. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Hello to all!

    Can anyone help me to identify a watch manufacturer (see att.)?
    It is a repeater with mortal second.
    There is only "SF" hallmark stamped on the plate under the dial.

    Thanks in advance,
    Dmitriy.

    IMG-3ed1f5a074da87863436316478932c70-V.jpg IMG-18656f8ac5ff821ccbf1ef255b157f15-V.jpg IMG-6320805721f9b52fbc26b867bbbaee77-V.jpg IMG-e62e0e9aa82ad32ab50dab894b1e71c1-V.jpg
     
  2. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    [snipped]

    That is a beautiful timepiece !

    I believe you will receive more responses, if you
    add (or move) your posting to the 'Clocks Forum'.

    General Clock Discussions

    Mikrolisk lists a few possibilities for 'S F', but
    the trademark below (although, within an oval)
    is similar to your mark:
    bildmarke_scheurle.jpg
    Franz Scheurle Schwäbisch Gmünd,
    Deutschland; gegründet 1904
     
  3. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    But Scheurle's trademark is not "S F." So, why choose that?
     
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  4. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    Oops! ... adult onset dyslexia? :?|
     
  5. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    LloydB, thanks for your answer.

    But firstly I know about Mikrolisk, secondly this movement was produced more earlier then 1904, I suppose it was begining of the XIX century and thirdly this movement absolutly does not look like German made.
     
  6. zedric

    zedric Registered User

    Aug 8, 2012
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    I wonder if your identification of the beginning of the 19th century is a bit optimistic - I know that you posted in the other thread that the case had markings on it, but they could have been added at any time.

    I have a small clock of similar function to yours in my collection (although without the seconds indication), and the best that I can guess is that it is around 1820 (although with no solid justification for this). Mine is made by Duval a Paris, and as there were several Duvals, that doesn't help much in dating. As you can see, mine also has a plunge activated repeat, with speed adjustment for the repeat. Mine also has a very decorative pierced bridge, which suggests that mine might be a little earlier than yours.

    The photo with the tissue box is to give an idea of size...

    I would be interested if you find anything more about yours, as it might help in dating mine more accurately.

    IMG_3291.JPG IMG_3292.JPG IMG_3293.JPG
     
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  7. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    May be you are right about the optimism of my identification, but in a conversation with several experienced people they told me the same thing: this is the first quarter of the 19th century.
    Unfortunately, that’s all I managed to figure out ...
     
  8. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Dec 14, 2001
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    One thing that might help. With French marks, two letter ending with an "F" often means "Freres" or brothers.
     
  9. zedric

    zedric Registered User

    Aug 8, 2012
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    I would be genuinely interested to know how they assigned a date to this piece - it is not a style that seems to be typical of any period - just from the style of the clock case you could easily assign it a date anywhere from the early 1800s to the early 1900s, and it would be difficult for anyone to contradict you. So there must be something in the movement style that makes them think this, but given that so few movements like this were made for clocks I would have thought that would be just as difficult to date (but certainly no-one would call me an expert in this area!). My understanding is that the use of coiled gongs such as this was not very common in the early 1800s, although Breguet had certainly used straight gongs before this.
     
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  10. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Or "Fils" )))
     
    zedric likes this.
  11. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #11 roughbarked, May 28, 2020
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    François Czapek and Antoine Norbert de Patek were making things like this in 1839

    Czapek_Mobile_History_1839_OK.png
     
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  12. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
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    I think SF might be Stauffer. I think I once looked for SF and it was Stauffer and my mvt pretty much matches Stauffer’s production. Only now I don’t remember 100% sure if it was SF
     
  13. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #13 roughbarked, May 28, 2020
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    On Stauffer:
    Stauffer, Son & Co. of La Chaux-de-Fonds, and Stauffer & Co. of London
    and an interesting aside in reference to buying in stuff from IWC and ETA.
    My Blog: Stauffer & Co. and Eterna

    and... Stauffer_IWC

    These were the top three off my search result.

    Did anyone see any mention of SF?

    Yet the 5th on the list was Microlisk and here it is Stauffer & Fils. Mikrolisk - The horological trade mark index

    and on checking through the original vintage watch straps page, found nine mentions of Fils and this one: 1 of 9..
    'All the trademarks illustrated here registered to "Stauffer Fils & Cie" (Stauffer, Son and Co.) state that they are "fabricants" (manufacturers) of La Chaux-de-Fonds, which we know is a true statement from a letter by a Mr J. Lecluse describing a visit to the Stauffer factory in La Chaux-de-Fonds that appeared in the journal of the British Horological Institute in September 1885 and which is discussed in detail below.'
     
  14. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    #14 myasnik, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    It cannot be Stauffer, because he has been working since 1880.
    It is obvious that my timepiece was made much earlier and almost certainly in France.
     
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  15. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    No, Stauffer watches are earlier than 1880. There are early Lepine calibers by Stauffer dating back to - like - 1850... These were no longer made in 1880.
     
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  16. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    ;);)
     
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  17. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    Looking at them as pocket watch movements, by the layout of the movement and the repeat mechanism I would've dated it around 1810-1820 and zedrics a few years earlier, both do look very French, (and very nice). It may be difficult to find the actual maker though but I hope someone can.
    Dan
     
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  18. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    Here’s an SF

    898C0214-7624-4A26-90C5-BD3A2C0DD466.jpeg

    AAB05726-0AA4-463A-A813-E40F25D57582.jpeg

    86527590-55A1-41A9-9073-F52A218363C5.jpeg

    5070F484-452A-4261-8620-09E4E51E94FF.jpeg

    The watch is marked Gutkaes and Lange, but Hans says it’s a fraud, so let’s call it unsigned...
     
  19. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Thanks to all for the interest to this thread.
     

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