Need help IDing 19th century china clock

[Cassius7]

I have recently inherited the clock pictured below. In 1978 my great aunt claimed that it had been in her family for 150 years, which would have meant it was acquired in England around 1828. She was generally reliable about family history, but this may not be correct. The other possibility (on circumstantial evidence) is that it might been acquired in the US circa 1850.

The clock does not seem to have any useful identifying marks. On the underside of the china base there is a "4", and (as the second photo shows), the rim of the rear plate is stamped with the text "2808 KB"; 2808 is also stamped on the back of the clock mechanism housing.

It came with the pendulum shown in the third photo; I can't verify that this is part of the original clock, tho it seems the right size.

Other than the obvious breakage (I have a few of the pieces), the china is in amazing shape. The wooden base and (much-faded red velvet) are also likely original, and I am told that the lack of a back plate covering the works indicates it sat under a glass dome.

This has quite significant sentimental value, and I would be quite grateful for any information about its likely time and place of origin.

thanks in advance

Randy

 

[harold bain]

Hi, Cassius, welcome to the message board. Your clock was made in France, possibly around 1850. Does the male figure have a head somewhere, or is that the "off with his head" queen?
It would originally have had a glass dome over it to keep the dust out, but they are very often missing/broken.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Hi, Cassius, welcome to the message board. Your clock was made in France, possibly around 1850. Does the male figure have a head somewhere, or is that the "off with his head" queen?
It would originally have had a glass dome over it to keep the dust out, but they are very often missing/broken.

Maybe it was made to commemorate the French Revolution?

RM

 

[Cassius7]

Hi, Cassius, welcome to the message board. Your clock was made in France, possibly around 1850. Does the male figure have a head somewhere, or is that the "off with his head" queen?
It would originally have had a glass dome over it to keep the dust out, but they are very often missing/broken.

Many thanks for the speedy info.
Yes, I do have his head; it was broken off cleanly so even tho he lost his head temporarily, he's quite the dashing dude when reassembled.
The object being held by both adults is a child figure, unrecognizable because it's also broken (I have only part of that).
I intrigued by your comment -- how do you know it was France, and around 1850?

thanks again

 

[harold bain]

The 1850 is based on your provenance. It could be just about any time in the last half of the 1800's. Hard to date French clocks without any makers stamps on the movement. The movement is a fairly typical looking French round movement.

 

[tom427cid]

Hi all,
I would agree about the age,maybe a little later.It has a Brocot adjustment,and I don't remember when they were introduced but I think it was a little later than 1850. Also the "china" might be porcelin. Someone who is familar with figurals might also be able to date it.
The pend might have a no. on it.If the number on the movement matches the pend then the two do go together.
Hope this helps.
BTW a very nice clock.
tom

 

[JTD]

To my eye the pendulum does not look correct. It looks to me like an American pendulum that would attach to a hook, as for instance in a 'gingerbread' clock, rather than the normal French pattern. Also the quality of the pendulum does not match that of the movement.

However, I am not an expert in French clocks, so someone may know better (or have better eyes!).

JTD

 

[Steven Thornberry]

To my eye the pendulum does not look correct. It looks to me like an American pendulum that would attach to a hook, as for instance in a 'gingerbread' clock, rather than the normal French pattern. Also the quality of the pendulum does not match that of the movement.

However, I am not an expert in French clocks, so someone may know better (or have better eyes!).

JTD

It does appear to be an Ansonia (-style) pendulum.

 

[harold bain]

Yes, the proper pendulum would have a hook on the top to fit to the suspension spring.

 

[eskmill]

Much concern about the age of the movement, type of pendulum suspension and the originality of the pendulum but not a word on the quality or age of the highly decorated china.

Is it fine china, faience or porcelain?

Cassius7 should do us a favor with the "test for real porcelain" by testing for translucency. Shine a bright light on the backside of a thin area such as the ruffle of the gent's duster.

Light will pass through "real" porcelain.

 

[jmclaugh]

Yep no doubt its French, can't say what the case is made of but it is a nice quality one, the base at the front has almost an Art Nouveau look to it. I don't see any adjusment above 12 for a Brocot and the pendulum isn't correct. I would say it is much later than 1828.

 

[laprade]

The case, is made of "unglazed porcelain" often called "parian" or "bisque". generally speaking, in the antique trade, "parian" is reserved for plain white, whereas "bisque" is used to describe "coloured" unglazed porcelain.

I'm surprized no one mentioned the pendulum earlier: definitely an american one. A replacement french pendulum will only cost in the region of €10 'euros)

The case is most likely to be german.