Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist watch

[bearklaw]

My siblings and I recently were given some family heirloom jewelry, which included a number of watches I've been tasked with identifying. Most of them were fairly simple (including a 1903 Waltham pocket watch I've already claimed) but the one pictured here has me baffled. The movement appears to be a pocket watch about 20mm in diameter with a custom face attached embedded in a watch strap. I've never seen a watch assembly quite like it.

The face reads "SWISS" at the very bottom, and what appears to be Ira's or Isa's in script. I've never heard of a manufacturer with a name similar to either - does anybody have any insight into what this is?

Thanks in advance, and sorry about the quality of the images - I don't have a lens that is good for extreme close ups.

-Barry

 

[JTD]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Welcome to the board.

Please can you post some pictures of the movement?

JTD

 

[bearklaw]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

I can't get to the movement. The back of the part in the first picture looks like the back of an open faced pocket watch - it has a curved gold back that does not look easily removable, and the only marking is the assay 14k mark. I'll try to take a picture of the back of it and the side profile this evening; it looks to me like the face may have been added to the movement to match the band, and I suspect the only way to get to the movement is to remove the face. I don't have the tools or the steady hands for that.

Did jewelers every make custom watches from other manufacturer's movements? This watch came from the estate of an aunt who had been fairly wealthy in her youth and purchased quite a bit of jewelry and several watches in the New York area in the 20s and 30s if that is of any help. (The other watches in her collection were two Walthams, an art-deco Tissot, and a Rytime.)

Thanks,
Barry

 

[gmorse]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Hi Barry,

From the style of your watch, I'd say that it was made some time in the 1960s or 1970s. These movements often just lift out of the back part of the case, shown in your first picture. Jewellers and wholesalers certainly did assemble watches from movements made by the Swiss manufacturers and had dials made with their trade names. Your dial does indeed match the grained effect on the band, which is fairly typical of the period; I believe nothing decorated like this would have been made in the 1920s.

The name "Iras" was registered in 1975 by a Swiss company, "Basis Watch / M. Thommen SA".

Regards,

Graham

 

[JTD]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

I am very puzzled by your description of this watch. You say it looks like a pocket watch but it does not appear to be anything like a pocket watch in the photos. Then you say it has a curved gold back - presumably a concave curve if any?

Do not remove the dial - this is not necessary and you will probably damage the watch if you try to. As Graham says, the movement may just lift out of the case. But please post some photos because at the moment your description is very hard to follow (at least to me!).

I certainly don't think this is a 'custom watch' if you mean it was made specially to your aunt's order. As Graham says, the trade name is a modern Swiss company who would probably have had thousands made.

JTD

 

[bearklaw]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Thanks Graham, JTD.

Graham - Its quite possible its from the 60s or 70s. I was talking to my siblings this afternoon and learned that the collection went from the original aunt to a second aunt before reaching us, which I was unaware of. Some of the pieces might be from the second aunt, and if so would be much newer than the pieces from the first aunt, and would be considerably less expensive. I was assuming the 20s because all the other watches in the set were easy to identify and were all from that period. I agree the styling doesn't seem to fit that era too well.

JTD - I wasn't very clear in my original question. When I asked about "custom watch" I was wondering if jewelers every put their own face and case on somebody else's motion and in effect build a house brand watch. More for my own curiosity than anything else, and reading my original question I can see that your interpretation matches what I wrote.

I'll post more pics tonight, but I'll try to explain the construction of the watch. In all the other wrist watches I've examined, if you remove the back of the case you can see the movement. In this case removing the back of the case revealed the piece in the first picture, and the back of the case wraps around the movement under the dial, rather like the case of an open faced pocket watch (but a lot smaller). It doesn't appear to be the usual case front/movement/case back sandwich.

Finally, I never expected this watch to be particularly valuable, I'm just trying to figure out what it is to help unravel some family history. If it is indeed from the second aunt that makes this less interesting to me since her history is well know, unlike the aunt I originally thought it was from who's story is mostly lost to us.

-Barry

 

[bearklaw]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

I took the watch apart this evening, and while looking at the first set of profile pictures I realized the back of the case did not enclose the movement, and was able to separate it out; pictures attached. Its an Angelus movement, 17 jewels, unadjusted. The text also reads "Swiss" and "DBA". Thanks to Graham's tips I've been looking up Basis watches, and the case on this watch definitely resembles some other women's watches of theirs I've found pictures of. I'm currently guessing its a mid to late 70s watch with an interesting movement. I'm sure one of my family members will enjoy wearing it.

Thanks everybody,
-Barry

 

[gmorse]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Hi Barry,

Another clue to the date is the fact that the movement has shock protection on the balance, which places it after the 1940s at least.

Regards,

Graham

 

[JTD]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Glad you finally got it worked out.

Valuable or not, family history is always interesting and this watch can become an heirloom of the future, with the information you have discovered to go with it.

JTD

 

[bearklaw]

Re: Need help identifying what is believed to be a 20s vintage ladies swiss wrist wat

Graham - I was wondering what that was. I'm mostly familiar with pocket watches and old movements, and noticed that but couldn't figure out what it was.

JTD - agreed. Two of the other three watches in the set are probably going to become part donors to repairable watches (assuming no family member wants them). The Waltham wrist watch apparently lost its crown decades ago, leaving a hole to the interior. The movement looks corroded, so hopefully we can find a jeweler who want the face or case. The Rytime has severe case damage but the movement looks decent. The Tissot will probably go to a family member, but its an odd duck. Its styling is very art deco, to the point its actually hard to read. Early example of a fashion victim I guess.

Thanks again,
Barry