Need help identifying watch Smith royal exchange London

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Nathanbulmer, Dec 25, 2016.

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  1. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    I received a pocket watch family air loom and can't find much on it. It has smith royal exchange stamped on it No.6975
     

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  2. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, the serial number will not be able to be traced; most records of early Verge Pocket Watches have unfortunately been lost or destroyed. The Pocket Watch has a Verge Fusee movement and it looks like it has an American Case. A photo of the inside of the lid showing the Hallmarks if any would be helpful in getting more information. It has a Bosely Regulator which will help to date it. Regards Ray
     
  3. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi nathanbulmer, and welcome,

    You have an English fusee verge movement, made around the second quarter of the 19th century. If you can show us some clear pictures of the inside of the case lids, we may be able to give a more precise date, that is, if the case was made in England with appropriate assay hallmarks. A great many movements were exported from the UK and cased in the US to avoid customs duties, so there may not be dating information. This very decorative case could well have been made in the US. Wherever the case was made, you have a handsome heirloom!

    The signature on the top plate is almost certainly that of the retailer; there are many Smiths listed in the reference books, but I can't find one working from the Royal Exchange, which was one of the prestige shopping areas of London.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  4. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    #4 Nathanbulmer, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    xyzzytom_326424 xyzzytom_326423 xyzzytom_326421
     
  5. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Nathanbulmer,

    Your attachments don't display. Did you use the same way of inserting them in your post as you did in your first?

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  6. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    Yes that's weird I can I see them in the post on my end.
     
  7. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    I can't see them either. Regards Ray
     
  8. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Neither can I.

    JTD
     
  9. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    #9 Nathanbulmer, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    xyzzytom_326432 xyzzytom_326431 xyzzytom_326430 xyzzytom_326429

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you cant see them I also updated an album on my profile. thanks for all the help.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it gold?
     
  10. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Nathanbulmer,

    This isn't an English case, so there's no precise dating possible. It is marked "18" which implies 18 carat gold, but I don't know the maker's mark; someone here may be able to identify this company.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  11. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    Nathan, that winding key in your forurth photo is a beauty!!! Look after that and keep it with the watch. It may be partially gold, although the stem will be steel, and I suspect it is contemporaneous with the watch.

    I would guess from the sheer quality of the case that it is indeed 18K solid gold. Please do not have this acid tested (which will damage the case) which is unnecessary as you are not planning to sell the watch as an heirloom. If you are going to insure the watc my advice would be to assume it is 18K. The dial may also be solid gold, and this will be an English dial affixed to the movement and then imported into the USA.

    A number of top London watchmakers had premises in Royal Exchange in the 19th century, although we do not know if they actually manufactured watches there or simply retailed them. I agree with Graham that the likelihood is that your Smith was a retailer/wholesaler of watches, although it is unusual to find a wholesaler exporting movements to the USA!

    The wide pendant on your watch suggests to me that the date is 1820s or maybe just 1830s, although given that this is an American case it may not follow the same "rules" as an English case. If no-one here comes up with an identity for the casemaker E.S.&Co, I suggest that you could post the pictures of the case in the American Pocket Watches forum to see if they can identify the maker for you.
     
  12. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    #12 gmorse, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Hi Nathanbulmer,

    One thing that strikes me as unusual in an English movement is the position of the case bolt; these are normally at 180° to the joint, (the hinge), but this one is slightly offset. It isn't clear from the pictures, but the dial is probably not fixed directly to the movement, but instead attached to a separate plate, (the "brass edge"), which is pinned in turn to the watch plate. The joint is often attached to this brass edge rather than the pillar plate itself, and this arrangement allows more flexibility in the case design, which appears to be what's happened here.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  13. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    This is awesome information thank you, grandma is reading too we are currently trying to find more of her father's and grandfather's watches.
     
  14. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    How would I go about finding value? I just need to see if I should get it insured or put it in a safety deposit box? Never had something this nice.
     
  15. Nathanbulmer

    Nathanbulmer Registered User

    Dec 25, 2016
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    Greetings I have been pondering getting this watch fixed and working order who do you recommend to do the work?
     
  16. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I sent you some repair info via PM. They restored last watch shown in
    my Odd lot thread. See post #501.

    Keith R...
     

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