Need help decipher this Patek certificate

mynikko

Registered User
Oct 2, 2014
21
6
3
Hi,

I recently acquired a Patek Philippe pocket watch that comes with an original certificate. However, I cannot recognize some of the hand writings. I know I can order an extract from the archive to compare the information of the two, but they just increased the price from 150 to 500 Swiss Francs this month. I guess it’s a no go now.

Certificate1 copy.jpg

1. It is the serial number (sorry that I blurred it)
2. Is it bassine style? I really don’t know this one
3. 18 linges, which is the size of the pocket watch
4. échappement à ancre, means lever scapement
5. 11 trous en rubis, that means only 11 jewles? Or 11 holes that has rubies on both end?
6. Cadran = dial enamel?
7. Boite means the case. Uknown symbol, maybe means open face?
8. Cuvette means the bow. Same as #7, open face again?
9. The most confusing part. Is that Louis hand at the beginning?
10. E.G. is engraved. I know this because it is on the case.
11. Geneva, 26 December. With an interesting mark on the upper right.

I tried my best searching online and compared many images of extracts and certificates, but I still cannot figure out 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9. Is there anyone who is familiar with these? Any help is appreciated.
 

svenedin

NAWCC Member
Jan 28, 2010
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Surrey
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Hi,

I recently acquired a Patek Philippe pocket watch that comes with an original certificate. However, I cannot recognize some of the hand writings. I know I can order an extract from the archive to compare the information of the two, but they just increased the price from 150 to 500 Swiss Francs this month. I guess it’s a no go now.

View attachment 652935

1. It is the serial number (sorry that I blurred it)
2. Is it bassine style? I really don’t know this one
3. 18 linges, which is the size of the pocket watch
4. échappement à ancre, means lever scapement
5. 11 trous en rubis, that means only 11 jewles? Or 11 holes that has rubies on both end?
6. Cadran = dial enamel?
7. Boite means the case. Uknown symbol, maybe means open face?
8. Cuvette means the bow. Same as #7, open face again?
9. The most confusing part. Is that Louis hand at the beginning?
10. E.G. is engraved. I know this because it is on the case.
11. Geneva, 26 December. With an interesting mark on the upper right.

I tried my best searching online and compared many images of extracts and certificates, but I still cannot figure out 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9. Is there anyone who is familiar with these? Any help is appreciated.
2) Remontoir
6) Dial of enamel (d' émail)
7) gold case (Or).
8) Cuvette is the inner case lid (called the dome on English watches). I think it also says "Or": gold
9) I think it says (delivered) monogrammed but not sure

Regarding the jewel count, yes it says 11 holes have rubies but I would have thought that at the very least the balance would have endstones as well as hole jewels which would raise the jewel count probably to 15 if there are other endstones too.
 
Last edited:

mynikko

Registered User
Oct 2, 2014
21
6
3
2) Remontoir
6) Dial of enamel (d' émail)
7) gold case (Or).
8) Cuvette is the inner case lid (called the dome on English watches). I think it also says "Or": gold
9) I think it says (delivered) monogrammed but not sure

Regarding the jewel count, yes it says 11 holes have rubies but I would have thought that at the very least the balance would have endstones as well as hole jewels which would raise the jewel count probably to 15 if there are other endstones too.
Thanks so much for solving the puzzle for me. This watch calibre is identical to the usual Gondolo in construction, so I think it probably has at least 15 jewels. I am not sure how many jewels a Gondolo pocket watch has, but definitely more than 11 (plus roller pin, end stones and two on the lever pallets).
 

Dr. Jon

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Dec 14, 2001
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New Hampshire
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11 holes jeweled does not mean 11 jewels. A lever watch has 3 additional jewels, the roller and pallet jewels.

Each hole can have one or two jewels. From the center to the balance there are 12 holes. 11 Jewels probably means the lower center hole is not jeweled, which is typical of Patek. The jewel count is likely between 18, very common with Patek and possibly 20 jewels.
 

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