Need another set of eyes, please

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by dlb1052, Feb 24, 2019.

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  1. dlb1052

    dlb1052 Registered User
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    Feb 8, 2014
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    I hope someone sees something wrong in these photos. If I had the talent it would be a video. This movement runs for 2-3 weeks fine. Then quits constantly, verge rocking between teeth and not running the movement. Strange it will run for so long? Looks to me like entry and exit of the verge on the EW is not correct. Before I endeavor to make any changes, whatever they maybe, I would really appreciate some insight and opinions. Thanks so much. Diane

    IMG_20190224_092334804.jpg IMG_20190224_092318035.jpg
     
  2. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    Verge rocking between teeth suggests no power to the escape wheel. Have any of the wheels (gears) or pinions had teeth replaced? Have any of the pivot holes been bushed? When the clock is running how much total swing does the pendulum have? You say it stops consistently, what specifically is consistent about how it stops? Does it always stop with the minute hand between 9 and 12? How much weight on each side? Finally, is it a 30 hour or 8 day clock?

    A lot of questions but there are so many things that stop a clock.

    RC
     
  3. dlb1052

    dlb1052 Registered User
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    Thank you Mr.Croswell for helping. Sorry, long response....aggravated !! I was hoping another set of eyes on the verge to ew would see something I was missing. I am a hobbyist with about 30 ww clock repairs under my belt, running everyday in my home. This one has me stumped. Need my head put back on straight !! It is an Atkins and Downs 30 hour 8.133 movement with wobble plate alarm.
    Question 1 & 2. Purchased at a southern estate sale with 5 teeth replaced on the third wheel gear. A very poor repair ( miss sharped teeth, depthing problem, random teeth height ). It was not going to run. Re-replaced the teeth. No pinion repairs. Re-bushed the pivots, very necessary (did it twice in case I messed up).
    Question 3: Total pendulum swing about 3 inches.
    Question 4: I am not running it with hands in place.
    Question 5: I have assembled the movement with time only, no strike, no alarm. I can spin the train, freely, no obvious binding. Marked teeth when it stopped. Had about all teeth marked at one point. NO consistency.
    Weight seems to have no effect. Runs for 2-3 weeks on a tomato paste can with steel shot with 2 1/2 pounds. When it stops, I can't even get it to run on 5 pounds. UGH. Verge just rocks back and forth.
    Since I have no idea what has happened to this movement after 200 years, I wanted another set of eyes on the verge to ew. Just in case something had been replaced, and I just don't see it.
    Of course, I do NOT expect a forum repair. That would be impossible without the movement in hand. I am just SO frustrated that I cannot seem to isolate the problem. However, I am a very persistent lady, so if I live long enough, I will find it ! Short of running it over with the car !!! I was just hoping for direction. Perhaps someday I will post photos of the clock, if I ever get it running, don't hold your breath. Thanks to all who have looked at this post. Diane.
     
  4. dlb1052

    dlb1052 Registered User
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    Feb 8, 2014
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    Of course, I WILL NOT run it over with the car. I am just so mad at myself, and feel SO stupid right now.
     
  5. gleber

    gleber Registered User

    Jun 15, 2015
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    As Mr. Croswell points out, rocking indicates no power to the escape wheel. So, it doesn't seem that the fault will be found by looking at the EW/Verge. When it stops, I suspect one of the wheels is locked or binding and not transmitting power to the EW as it should. That is where I would focus my attention. When it stops, can you rotate the EW by hand at all? Can you then work back through the wheels?

    I sympathize with you. It is an odd problem for it to run through a few weeks, by then stop like that. I learned a lesson when I had a WW movement on the test stand. It worked fine. Back in the clock, it would not work. It turns out that when it was on the stand, I allowed the weight to hang straight down. In the clock the cord goes up through the pulley, so the direction of the weight's pull changed the orientation of the wheels in the pivot holes enough to bind in one case and not in the other.

    Good luck,
    Tom
     
  6. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    A 3 inch swing on 2.5 lbs. for a 30 hr ww suggests that it runs well when it does run. I agree the problem probably isn't the verge or escape wheel. Here are a few things to check:

    1. Make sure the pulleys at the top of the case. Are free and not wobbly.
    2. With the verge removed, use a light piece of spring wire to apply to apply a small friction load against the escape wheel arbor then turn the train slowly by hand until the great wheel has made at least a full revolution, do you feel the tight spot? Repeat turning in the opposite direction, and again face down, and back down. This sounds a lot like a tooth on a wheel binding on a pinion.
    3. Important to know where each gear is when it stops. Put a little piece of tape or other removable marker on each wheel when it stops.
    4. Reduce the drive weight to about 1 to 1.5 lbs. or the minimum the clock seems to run with and check gear positions when it stops. The idea is to get the weight down to the edge of the limit that will run the clock then when the tight spot comes around hopefully it will stop sooner than 3 weeks and you can find the fault where a wheel stops in the same place each time.
    5. Check for out of round wheels. The wheel that drives the escape wheel pinion is noted for causing this sort of problem.
    6. If the replaced gear teeth are in the time train, use a caliper to check tooth spacing and length. Needs to be close to perfect. Try putting just the repaired wheel and mating pinion between the plates and rotate in both directions with a little resistance applied to the driven arbor. Looks can be deceiving so don't look - close your eyes and see if you can tell when the repaired teeth pass over the pinion. Some times the problem will reveal in reverse direction. Even though. It normally doesn't run that way, it should turn freely.

    Good luck

    RC
     
  7. dlb1052

    dlb1052 Registered User
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    Feb 8, 2014
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    Dear RC and others for helping and guidance. Movement is running, that is when it does, in a clock stand ,no case. At least a couple problems eliminated ! You have provided me with some wonderful information. I shall go back to caliper, dividers and the lathe to check teeth and gears. I didn't do all of that. I also did not think to run the train in reverse, nor with spring wire. I went to heavier weight not lighter, your point is great. I will be doing ALL of the things you have suggested during this next week. Hopefully I find something. Running for a length of time is what had me so confused, and at a lose for direction. Thank you all for your great ideas and interest. I will find this problem thanks to you all.
     
  8. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Nov 13, 2011
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    on my seth thomas pillar and scroll every now and then the time side weight gets hung up on an ever-so-slight back board protrusion when an original nail pulls out a bit... i keep meaning to fix it, but then i.... what were we talking about? :cool:

    also... why not post a video? the trick is to take a video with your mobile phone and then upload it to youtube. they will do all the required processing and give you a link you can paste into a message here... and voila, the video will automagically be embedded.
     

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