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  1. viclip

    viclip Registered User
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    Nice Elgin with Winding Indicator.

    The idea of the WI was, that if properly zeroed & the watch was re-wound daily around the same time, then the mainspring's power curve could be taken advantage of in its flattest range. That would result in better time-keeping.

    But since Railroad Grade watches absent the WI feature met the 30 sec./wk. standard, with trainmen already paying extra for a standard watch, they weren't inclined to pay even more on top of that for the WI feature as well. The additional precision wasn't worth it to them, is my understanding. A plain standard watch was already plenty expensive enough for most trainmen to buy. Of course there were always trainmen who desired "all the bells & whistles", but I suspect that most WI's were acquired by better paid railroad personnel (supervisory/managerial levels) as well as by "civilians" who just liked watches (like me!).

    I vaguely recall seeing some RR guidelines which mentioned watches with the WI feature in passing. As far as I'm aware the inspectors accepted WI's but no line ever mandated that feature. Other members here are far more knowledgeable in that regard & I'd certainly appreciate hearing from them.
     
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  2. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    What a beautiful idea,Rob-I hope we can make this happen. We need a good kick,that's for sure!
    I wanted a pocket watch that had some character earned by years of being carried and used for what it was made for.
    I have a Hamilton 940 in a brassy case that fit the bill,but decided on an earlier Hampden model New Railway that just seemed a little more appropriate...

    SAM_1533-001.JPG SAM_1534-001.JPG SAM_1535-001.JPG SAM_1537-001.JPG
     
  3. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    #53 Clint Geller, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    For the purpose of this thread, how is a "railroad watch" being defined? Which of the following overlapping definitions come closest to the mark?

    -A watch for which there is documentary evidence, either on the watch itself, or elsewhere, that it was probably used on a railroad (too strict, apparently)
    -A watch of a make, model and grade that was known to have been designed and/or advertised for railroad service (too strict?)
    -A watch of a make, model, grade and with functional attributes known to have been accepted for use on one or more railroad lines (the Goldilocks definition?)
    -A watch whose design features and functional attributes are known to have been compatible, when the watch was made, with railroad standards and railroad employee preferences (too lax?)
    -A watch with a railroad-related trade name on it (seen on ebay)
    -A watch with a choo-choo train on the case or the dial (seen on ebay)

    The OP tends to suggest that we are talking about "Railroad Standard Watches" as defined by the link thereto.

    Concretely, would an "American Watch Co." grade 19 jewel hunting case SW/PS Waltham Model 1888 with nonmagnetic escapement and double sunk, radial Arabic numeral dial be considered a "railroad watch?" Pendant setting and a hunting case were not preferred, but are they disqualifying?
     
  4. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    Clint,whatever the men decide is OK with me,as long as the main thrust of this topic remains central.

    I haven't felt this good about an idea in quite some time.
    Anything I can do to help make it happen-I'm in. :)
     
  5. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Clint,

    I'm talking about any watch that during it's time frame would have been accepted on
    one or more RR lines.:). It doesn't have to be one that was actually used by a RR man.

    No(that's not enough but it could have a standard watch in that case;) or the dial might be
    correct for a Standard watch)

    yes

    yes

    yes

    yes


    Rob
     
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  6. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    Shown before but wanted to join the fun.

    dsc_0005ae-jpg.jpg



    dsc_0001-2-b-jpg.jpg
     
  7. 4mula1fan

    4mula1fan Registered User

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    Why do great threads always have a conflict? There is always someone that has to pick the brown out of the chicken poop. At the end of that task, it's still chicken poop. I understand the strict nature of thread subject (sort of), but if it is well received, why throw a clod in the churn? Stats and bonafide proof are not always needed. Do we need a document to have fun in a great thread, and see some fine watches? Let's see some more great watches and have a good time doing it.
     
  8. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    That is my favorite Hampden dial-very nice-and scare too I hear.
     
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  9. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    Here is a standard grade watch, but not owned by a RR person, but a farmer, and a friend.
    I'm the second owner of it, obtained from the estate... it was probably never carried more that 25 miles from 'home' by the original owner.
    Purchase documented on the warranty paper. RIP Lewis.

    LEWIS WATCH PAPER.jpg lewis.JPG
     
  10. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
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    Last one of the day. This is a beauty, I think. I don't know why I don't carry it more often.

    IMG_0776.JPG IMG_0782.JPG
     
  11. Jskirk

    Jskirk Registered User
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    This is my favorite RR grade that I still own right now.
    1889 Grade 116 BW raymond

    20200418_191644.jpg 20200418_191627.jpg
     
  12. PW Collector

    PW Collector Registered User

    Aug 3, 2003
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    One more, Hamilton 992 Rigid Bow Case
    Dave

    E1644A8F-B8DA-4FEC-8CAE-37CB33F6102F.jpeg 0CA8D66E-8B91-4975-896A-CCB13AC2DB44.jpeg 5B3179C0-FDB8-4A2C-9E35-8AEDF23E7045.jpeg 43D71A92-8EA4-486A-977C-CC42ED85D29E.jpeg CA71F352-2167-4B81-AFF5-1AE6283E203A.jpeg
     
  13. Jskirk

    Jskirk Registered User
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    So here is my close second, but it needs cleaned and a matching hand, when that happens it may be my favorite.
    Bunn PL model 6 1895

    20200418_193742.jpg 20200418_193704.jpg
     
  14. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    #64 musicguy, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    Here is one from 1950 with a melamine dial in a stainless steel case that looks to
    have never been worn. It's one of my favorites.(I have shown this before but I like it)

    20200418_194618.jpg ham151.jpg

    26.jpg 2268255361_6742de818f_o.jpg



    Rob
     
  15. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    #65 Clint Geller, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    I agree, Marty. I was primarily looking for a little clarification on what was being considered a railroad watch here, so I could tell whether I had something to contribute. Most of my watches predate formal lists of approved railroad watch models or watch features, though some watches just like them (e.g., AT&Co grade Model 1857s) were known to have been purchased by railroads. I've got a lovely Model 88 Waltham, but given that it is pendant set and hunting case, I wasn't sure it qualifies as a railroad watch. I knew that only the first four of my six possible definitions could be taken seriously by anyone here. The others were just included to make a point about how the term sometimes is used on eBay. I didn't know how strict the thread was intended to be. Rob answered my general question, but I still don't know about my Model 1888.
     
  16. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I would have answered you if I knew. Maybe Kent or someone else
    can comment on the 19j Model 1888


    Rob
     
  17. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    Clint,if it was accepted on any RR in North America I'd be happy to include it. Pendant set,hunter,etc.-I have heard of unusual exceptions on some RR's. Also,I'm not 100% certain, but I have an inkling the M.88 an export-?-if so,that would probably exclude it.

    My concern is encouraging this idea of Rob's. We have a "Day" for almost everything;why not the American RR Pocket Watch? It just hits home with me! I can't help but like this idea. Pics of RR PW's are great,but I want to see some brainstorming on the topic.

    Toss out anything-please,anyone-one idea leads to another...
     
  18. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    Well, if you're not sure, Rob, then I feel less bad about not knowing myself. :)
     
  19. Robert Sweet

    Robert Sweet Registered User

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    No. 2 with satin finish Melamine dial...…

    Robert

    My 992B No. 2.JPG
     
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  20. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Needs more Keywind!

    H.Z. Culver #56827
    fd8b81fef213790d841584adb6a72152.jpg 96cf92dcf54c3568a783f725a25b45d7.jpg

    Undoubtedly in the pockets of many railroad men!
    sn84028821 1871-04-27 1 7 image 526x817 from 0x0 to 1582x2454.jpg
    April 27, 1871 Holmes county Republican.

    Notice in this ad that "quick train" refers to 16,200bph and "extra quick" is 18000 bph! Ha!
     
  21. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Well, an Illinois 15J Bunn, marked Adjusted.

    Keith R...

    100_2376 (800x600).jpg 100_2402 (800x600).jpg 100_2385 (800x600).jpg
     
  22. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    It looks like I just got in under the wire (on the west coast).
    ... shown before but, dang, I like this one.
    7011922.jpg 7011922mobl2.jpg
     
  23. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Can I add one more? This is lever set ...
    13006434m.jpg 99Max_f.jpg
     
  24. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Click here:
    Page 5 of Greg's book answers some peoples questions that have been asked

    100 Plus Years of Railroad Watches and Railroad Watch Standards in North America
    Created by Greg Frauenhoff


    Rob
     
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  25. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I love that double sunk 24 hour dial
     
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  26. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I posted this back on Sep 2, 2019

    1868 RR watch advertisement Waltham, Howard, and Elgin



    Rob

    12-1868-advertisement-png.png
     
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  27. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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  28. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    A day late, oh well. I've posted this one before but it fits here also.

    Here's some info on one of my favorite railroad watches.

    Aurora mvt #72739:

    364564-e4bf61ac61d7f5d4f4bf86044f04fe39.jpg

    It's a grade no. 16 made in 1888 or 1889 and, being adjusted, etc., was one of the grades referred to as being "especially adapted to the requirements of railway service" in the 1888 Aurora ad below.

    364565-2b94b7cb5137bfbfce0e20e0141d39e1.jpg

    In 1889, the CB&Q began a watch inspection program and from their circular (below) we can see what type of watch they required.

    364566-9edd69cbda940714519858ca77018ba0.jpg

    And from the June, 1890, CB&Q monthly report of watches is service, we can see that Aurora #72739 was in use by one of their employees and was running 2 seconds slow over 7 days.

    364567-b50b49e1ca54b5909635987f78e26a3d.jpg

    364568-0a6b9f61821db5c5b94e92e7e5e56fe2.jpg

    So, Aurora #72739 was RR grade, met the CB&Q specs, and it was used in actual RR service. A bonafide no ifs-ands-or-buts RR watch.

    Attached Files: Click here to download all post attachments
     
  29. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    Greg states:

    "There never was a simple all-encompassing definition of a railroad watch. Different railroads, different inspectors, and different eras required different watches. Perhaps the closest one can come to a universal definition is that a railroad watch was a good quality, reliable timekeeper; not the cheapest watch of any particular time, but not necessarily the most expensive, either."

    The rest of his excellent book is required to determine whether any particular kind of watch qualifies under this broad definition. Fair enough.
     
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  30. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    HA! Wouldn't you know it? National American Railroad Pocket Watch Day, and it's the ONE DAY in the last 3 months I decided to carry my ONE Canadian Railroad watch! IMG_1585.jpg
     
  31. Martinjc

    Martinjc New Member

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    Just discovered this thread.
    IMG_20200419_190418.jpg

    IMG_20200419_190436.jpg

    IMG_20200419_190533.jpg

    IMG_20200419_190418.jpg IMG_20200419_190436.jpg
     
  32. Robert Sweet

    Robert Sweet Registered User

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    Hamilton's four standards that covered all roads from 1893 to 1970. Hamilton made others that qualified but are not listed. Courtesy of the Halligan Files.

    Robert

    HamAll.jpg
     
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  33. Martinjc

    Martinjc New Member

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    Would someone please explain how to attach photos?
     
  34. Robert Sweet

    Robert Sweet Registered User

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    Click on below attachment

    Robert

    Post Photos.jpg
     
  35. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Hi Martinjc and welcome to the NAWCC forum!

    Thanks for sharing your Waltham!

    Rob
     
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  36. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #86 Keith R..., Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
    Rob, I suspect Martinjc and post #81, was a loaner Key Wind RR watch in the day, as
    demonstrated by his AT&Co Waltham and number 347 on the back of the silver case.

    Here is my AT&Co #98514 with an added Tucker regulator in mid 1870's.

    Keith R...

    103_8346 (800x600).jpg 103_8188 (800x600).jpg
     
  37. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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  38. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    terry hall and Keith R... like this.

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