Mystery Watch

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by thesnark17, Jul 11, 2020.

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  1. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    Hi all! I'm new around here, but been collecting watches for a while.

    I stumbled across this unmarked watch a while back, and never could figure out who made it. The regulator is quite striking. Has anyone seen anything like it?

    16 size approximately. It needs a new center wheel [pinion] to return to service.

    mystery mvt .jpg mystery mvt dial side.jpg
    Thanks!
     
  2. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    HI and welcome to this forum.

    It is a very interesting watch. The regulator looks like it may be adjusted by a screw on the side of the balance and it is also unusual in that the regulator end with the pins under the balance cock.

    The winding click is also very unusual,

    If you mean by service, to have it indicate time, it needs a new center wheel or a a very strong arbor replacement, a new canon pinion to engage the remaining intermediate wheel as well as a new hour motion wheel. This assumes you have a dial and hands,

    I have not seen one like it but it may not be hard to find a donor movement for the missing parts.
     
  3. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    #3 thesnark17, Jul 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
    Oh, I have all the parts. It only needs a center wheel, second hand, and balance jewel screw to be perfect again (crosses fingers that the existing cannon pinion works with a new center wheel...). It runs and keeps good time (though obviously not with the hands). I didn't bother picturing the dial/hands as they don't add anything to the ID (the dial is blank).

    My working assumption is that some ignoramus pried up the dial, breaking the center wheel, and lost the loose seconds hand. Why anyone with no knowledge would tear into a working watch is beyond me...

    The regulator is a push-type (push the lever to adjust, though it's backwards of course), but you're right that the pins are under the balance cock. I've never seen anything like it before. I tried to find something with a similar click, as it seemed that was an easier match, but I never got anywhere. (Doesn't help that I have a very narrow focus of collecting, and this isn't it.)

    There are no identifying marks on movement, dial, or case. I hope, if I can get a maker ID, that a center wheel wouldn't be too hard to come by.
     
  4. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    .... Anybody have a guess?

    I was randomly reading down posts in this forum and saw what I think is a striking resemblance to an Ed. Kummer ebauche. That watch is marked Roska, and it's a few threads down on this board. What do you guys think?
     
  5. Jessk09

    Jessk09 Registered User

    Feb 27, 2020
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    Welcome,There might be a mark on the back of the dial (can we have a picture?)




    Regards, June 15th
     
  6. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    I would be happy to picture it for you, but there are no marks on the dial at all. Not on the front, not on the back. Not even "Swiss". The dial is guilloché, and there was no space left for a name anywhere.

    The case, at least, is marked with something: "BB \" and the SN (I assume) 19. But that didn't get me anywhere either. This watch is as sterile as anything I've ever seen!
     
  7. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #7 roughbarked, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    Your photo may not be helping me but the minute wheel of your watch also looks in bad shape.
     
  8. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    That picture was cut to size for a different forum. Fortunately the wheel is fine. It teaches me the importance of good pictures though! So here you go. All new pictures.

    Some notes: I am aware that the balance is out of round. Also that a dial foot is broken off and missing.

    Is this a normal crystal/dial relationship? There is a raised gunmetal edge on the dial, and no lip on the bezel. The crystal sits on the dial lip and stays with it when the bezel is removed. I have never seen something like it, and I have handled >100 other pocket watches such that I would have noticed.

    DSCF4049.JPG DSCF4048.JPG DSCF4047.JPG DSCF4046.JPG DSCF4045.JPG DSCF4044.JPG
     
  9. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    I've seen a few old Cyma's in cases like that.
    In some ways the movement is similar to that of Zenith but don't quote me on that because I have not found one with a click or coverplate like yours.
     
  10. thesnark17

    thesnark17 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2020
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    Well, I don't know whether it is or not, but I found in this thread a Zenith that looks awfully similar in case and dial design! Sadly not in movement design.

    W. Gabus Zenith steel pocket watch for Russia

    I'm aware that gunmetal cases with gold dials are not exactly rare...
     
  11. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    But you should see that the Zenith movement is actually closer to yours than you'd have thought from the image posted in the thread you linked.

    See Ranfft: bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Zenith 17.75'''NVSI

    However, the click design and regulator and coverplate/setting spring are all slightly different.
    Though Ranfft doesn't list absolutely every watch movement ever made.
     
  12. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    perhaps the copper ring is missing, which holds the glass on the bezel
    regards enrico

    IMG_2873.JPG IMG_2875.JPG
     
  13. Jessk09

    Jessk09 Registered User

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    That movement looks similar to that in my “Seeland” pocket watch

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
  14. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

    Aug 30, 2017
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    Do I see a mark next to the dial foot hole by the balance cock?
     
  15. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    I think you do and I can see it too. However, I have so far not been able to identify it.

    JTD
     
  16. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Could be a scratch. Does have the look of a p or a ƒ.
     
  17. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I see a star, arrows and lightning bolts. Maybe we are not looking at the same place.

    JTD
     
  18. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Your software and eyes are better than mine.
     
  19. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    No, sadly they aren't. I was looking at the wrong photo! My apologies.

    JTD
     

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