Mystery (to me) Movement Verge Fusee

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by L_Meckley, Jul 24, 2020.

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  1. L_Meckley

    L_Meckley New Member

    Jul 24, 2020
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    Hello. This is my first time posting on these forums, I apologize ahead of time for being a complete newbie.

    I am trying to find more information about a pair case watch I recently came across. This is mostly for curiosities sake as I do not think it carries a lot of value in the current, broken, condition. Usually I can find markings and the like in my books, but this one has me stumped because the movement is just blank. I have come across several similar looking movements while looking online, but end up confused by the use of terminology I am just not experienced enough yet to really understand.

    The case is marked, but I cannot find those marks either, and am not sure they are even related to the movement itself. I will gladly add more pictures if needed of specific parts.

    The rear plate measures about 34mm across, the dial is 36.3mm and slightly domed. About 9mm thick at the edge of the movement. At least one of the hands has been replaced. Fits fairly loose in the outer case, but both outer and inner case share the "1562" marking.

    Any further info is much appreciated. Thanks.

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  2. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Jan 7, 2011
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    Hi L_Meckley, and welcome to the forum,

    This verge fusee watch is, I think, European in origin, but I can't decide which particular country. It has some French features in its internal layout, but the top plate, with the pierced and engraved slide plate entirely covering it isn't familiar. The markings on the cases probably don't relate to the movement, since the cases would have been made by a separate set of craftspeople, usually to fit the specific movement. The only vaguely recognisable mark is the small shield with three chevrons, which resembles a Swiss canton mark.

    It has at least two pillar pins missing, and perhaps more, which has allowed the plates to spread slightly, so any looseness in wheel arbors may be due to this and not necessarily broken pivots. There's also a screw missing in the mechanism for adjusting the escape wheel, which itself is a French/Swiss feature.

    I think it dates from the end of the 18th or beginning of the 19th centuries, but its precise origin is a mystery.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  3. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

    Jan 28, 2010
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    The case marks look a bit like the Swiss marks for Neuchatel. I had to save your photo and turn it up the right way. There's a chevron and a bird. I can't really find any decent information on such early marks so I am not at all sure.
     
  4. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Sep 22, 2015
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    I have enlarged the marks on the case ... (Enrico is the most likely person to be able to help ...)

    upload_2020-7-25_15-40-29.png

    and here are the Neuchatel marks 'ancient & modern' ...

    upload_2020-7-25_15-59-10.png upload_2020-7-25_15-59-57.png

    and the appropriate page from Markham

    upload_2020-7-25_15-56-48.png

    John
     
    Keith R... and shinytickythings like this.
  5. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

    Jan 13, 2012
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    the Neuchatel trademark is fake , the word "Argent" is missing . The movement is of German origin
    regards enrico
     
  6. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    here another example of the fantasy of counterfeiters. a set of English hallmarks and the Neuchatel hallmark, obviously all fake.
    regards enrico

    DSCN2583.jpg DSCN2584.jpg DSCN2585.jpg DSCN2586.jpg
     
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  7. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Welcome and thanks for joining us. Being a newbie never need apology here.
     
  8. L_Meckley

    L_Meckley New Member

    Jul 24, 2020
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    I had come across the Swiss markings in my search, but didn't focus on them too much since the chevrons were inverted on my mark. The bird also appears to be a shoddy version of a two headed eagle. Both of which make sense if they are fake marks. I hadn't considered that, but I did find it bizarre that a movement like this wasn't signed in some way and thought it might be some variety of counterfeit. The pierced plate, while fancy looking at a glance, also has an overall "cheesy" appearance upon closer examination.

    So it's German. Is it old? Or just made to appear old? Or can't really tell at this point?

    And thanks for all the info so far.
     
  9. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    I think Graham's estimate above (post #2) is likely right.

    JTD
     

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