My new Kaiser Universe

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by PedroCortes, Aug 6, 2018.

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  1. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

    Jul 31, 2018
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    Hello friends, I just added this watch to my collection and I do not know how to start it. Someone can explain the steps. Thank you very much for the support.

    IMG_20180806_185845.jpg
     
  2. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Welcome to the message board! Nice clock to have. To start it, you would need to be sure that the pendulum is free to move...the bottom of the pendulum sticks through a hole in the base...the pendulum can't touch the sides of that hole, you may need to level it. Wind the clock. Then carefully, turn the globe about 180 degrees and let it go. If it doesn't rub on the hole in the base, it should begin to operate by itself. That is, of course, if the clock is set in proper beat. Are you familiar with setting the beat on 400-day clocks? There's been lots of discussion about there here.

    Kurt
     
  3. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Hello Kurt,
    It's a pleasure to be able to talk to you. I am new to the world of 400-day watches. My passion began in Barcelona when I found one of these jewels in the house of my deceased grandparents ....
    I unlocked the pendulum and now it flies well without touching the sides of the hole. I have to give the cord in the anti-clockwise direction? in the upper part there is a screw where the thread is held. How can I regulate it? I have seen that there are many threads in the forum about this watch ... but I can not see one where I explain clearly the steps to follow. thank you very much for your attention. one left from Italy.
     
  4. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Pedro -

    Maybe someone else will have links to more detailed instructions, but this is a picture of the back of my Kaiser...should be the same as yours. It is critical that the clock be in beat. This means that as the pendulum rotates one direction, you will hear a tick from the clock as the escape wheel releases and falls on a pallet. Make note of the distance that the pendulum continues to rotate past that tick sound. When the pendulum stops, it will rotate back the other direction. Again, near the end of that rotation, there will be another tick (we like to call it a tock). Make note of how far past the tock the pendulum travels. These two distances must be the same or very nearly the same. To make the beat adjustment, you need to turn the upper saddle that I've pointed to. Small movements will make big changes in the distances. Experiment until you find the right spot.

    As for time regulation, in other words, is the clock keeping good time, the star wheel on top of the pendulum is used to do that. If the clock is loosing time and you need to speed it up, turn the star wheel in the direction of the "+" sign that is on top of the star wheel. If it is gaining too much time, turn the wheel in the direction of the "-". Again, experiment to find the right spot.

    A trick you can do is to check the time adjustment is to use a stopwatch to time how long it takes for the pendulum to stop-start 8 times. When the pendulum reaches a stopping point going one direction, start your stop watch. When the pendulum swings to the other side and stops, that is 1 beat. Do this 7 more times...at the end of 8 beats, the time on the stopwatch should be 60 seconds. If less than that, the clock is running fast; if more than 60 seconds, the clock is running slow.

    Kurt

    KaiserAdjust.jpg
     
  5. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Fantastic contribution!
    I thank you for your clear and precise explanation.
    This afternoon when I get home after work I will try to set the clock.
    By the way, when the spherical pendulum has been released. The nut that held the sphere I have to keep it in a separate place (outside the clock) or can be screwed somewhere in the base....
    To not lose it !?

    Pedro
     
  6. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    There is a threaded stud on the base where the locking disc is to be stored when the clock is running.
     
  7. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    thank you very much! When you have time, you can send me a picture.
    It's better one image than a lot words ...

    Regards...
     
  8. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Unfortunately, it seems to me that I will have to make a repair to this watch.
    I cannot wind it, because it has something broken that I cannot identify. I think it has something broken or dismantled behind.
    Someone could give me support for a hypothetical repair. In the case where you have to disassemble the watch ... There is some document or thread in the chat that I can follow to get the clock to work perfectly one day without spending a lot of money.
     
  9. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    You cannot wind it...what does that mean? The key should turn counter clockwise as you look at the back of the clock. Does it not turn at all in that direction? Or does it turn and turn and turn without winding up?

    Kurt
     
  10. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    Pedro, Perhaps the clock cannot be wound because it is already tightly wound. Before you consider dismantling your clock it will be necessary to remove all power from the spring. The most common method is by using a 'let down' tool that is demonstrated in this video. If, as you say there is something else causing the clock not to wind you should be able to see the problem by looking from different angles while trying to wind. For my old eyes good lighting and magnification helps. As Kurt suggests above maybe it turns without ever getting tight... that would be an internal problem in the spring barrel or even possibly a broken click spring that does not allow the click to stay engaged with the ratchet wheel. A couple of close up pictures of your clock movement especially around the winding arbor might help us.
     
  11. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Dear friends,

    After asking the seller and having informed online, I think that the current situation of the watch is this
    1. lack of paint enamel on the pillars and the base, the former owner decided to remove the paint for aesthetic reasons. Surely he liked it more aesthetically. Once I have repaired it I will consider returning it to its old splendor.

    2. The base is good because don’t have splits cracks

    3. The dome doesn’t have chips, but I think it is not the original because it dances when supporting it to the base.

    4. the minute hand is loose on cannon pinion

    5. the hour hand has bit of back- lash but nothing to much, are loose

    6. Dial is good

    7. The bridge has a screw. Everything works correctly, but I will have to adjust the suspension wire, in the way you explained to me above.

    8. the suspension wire (cable) is correct because is new, but I don’t have it properly configured. I will look at what you have explained to me above.

    9. There is no key the clock is wound.

    10. The pallets had been moved. It’s necessary to reset, and I think it’s very difficult
    Seeing all these observations, being aware that this would be my first watch. I would like to know if someone expert sees it feasible for me to start repairing it.

    I see that the thing is more complicated than I thought. Can someone give me a feedback?

    I'm still at work, when I get home I do all the photos you need, to see the current status and possible repairs.

    Thank you very much.

    Pedro
     
  12. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    The photos.

    IMG_20180807_181025.jpg IMG_20180807_181119.jpg IMG_20180807_181151.jpg IMG_20180807_181216.jpg
     
  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    So you say there is no key, but yet the original picture has a key? Does it not fit? You also say the clock is wound up, so that can be a good thing. A question...when you rotate the globe each direction, do you see that the escape wheel moves to each pallet as the anchor is rocked back and forth? If the escape wheel doesn't turn when you do this, then the movement is gummed up and will need to be cleaned. As Harry stated, you will need to carefully let the mainspring power down. This is done by using a letdown chuck (gives better grip than a key does) while you simultaneously move the ratchet out of the way so you can turn the letdown chuck. It is a bad thing to let the power down rapidly...that will likely result in damage to the movement.

    If someone has been inside this clock and moved things like the pallets, then it will be a lot of trial and error to get them in the right position. You should invest in two books. One the 400-Day Clock Repair Guide by Charles Terwilliger. The second is Repair and Restore Your 400-Day Clock by Joe Rabushka. The first has a lot of specifications and technical explanations; the second is step by step approach to overhauling a clock...it's one person's approach but is a good starting point.

    One thing about the Kaiser clocks...they have extra sets of gears due to the part that drives the moon at the top of the crown...so that makes them a bit harder. Another thing is that the actual pendulum is not the globe but the weight are inside the base cover. If you remove the pendulum, it is important that it goes back exactly as it came apart.

    Kurt
     
  14. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    You are right because I think it is blocked. I cannot get to the right or to the left. The problem is that I am the tool of the video I do not have a 'let down'.... where I can buy it?

    IMG_20180807_184226.jpg
     
  15. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    So there is a good chance that the mainspring is fully wound...not necessarily a bad thing. Back to my question...if you move the anchor pin back and forth carefully with your finger, does the escape wheel turn? If it doesn't then the clock needs work. If it does, it might mean that the clock needs the beat adjusted and it might run.

    Look at this video...at about 0:30 into the video, there are some let down chucks that he points to. It is a handle with several chucks with different key sizes to fit different winding arbors.



    Places like Timesavers in the US and probably Meadows and Passmore in the UK have the let down chucks.

    Kurt

    AnchorPin.jpg
     
  16. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    yes that moves. I've made two videos where it looks.

     
  17. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    this video is very good. thanks for sharing....
     
  18. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I can see the minute hand moving when you move the anchor pin...good sign. I think you should be focusing on getting the beat set and then decide if the clock is going to run or not. If it doesn't, then you have no choice but to think about taking the clock apart for cleaning.

    I found clock overhaul to be a daunting effort the first time. I did my reading but had another clock repairman walk me through the process. I'm sure I would have made lots of mistakes without his help. That said, I'm still learning. I applaud you if you're willing to take this on...it would be extremely helpful if you had someone near you who could help.

    Good luck!

    Kurt
     
  19. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    #19 Harry Hopkins, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    Pedro, from watching your videos it looks and sounds to me like the escape wheel is moving with a nice snap which is good. At this point I doubt very much that you have any broken parts and that your mainspring is just simply fully wound. As Kurt suggested it is time to level the clock.. make sure the rod that extends through the base is not touching anything and give the globe a spin. Turning the globe from the stopped position about 180 degrees and letting go should be enough to get it started. Once it is spinning watch the minute hand for slight movement near the end of each swing. Even if it is out of beat the inertia from starting it should let it run for a few minutes. If this is true then you will need to set the beat and Kurt gave you a picture of what to adjust for that. You will want equal movement of the globe after each escape wheel teeth lands on the next pallet in each direction (this is called overswing). It is easier to judge how much overswing there is when there is not so much rotation.

    I think the biggest concern now is something you mentioned in an earlier post:
    If the pallets have been adjusted there is a good possibility the clock will not continue to run and they will need to be reset. Unfortunately it is not an easy job to describe or understand for someone that is a novice on these clocks. If it gets to that then we will try to work through that as well but lets see what happens after we see if it is in beat. If you are not sure if the clock is in beat or not post another video with the globe spinning so we can help you see if it needs adjustment.

    In case you didn't realize... the pendulum in this clock is hidden in the base and the globe is mostly for decoration.
     
  20. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Thank you very much for the support you are giving me and the valuable information. This is learning a lot these days ...

     
  21. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    To my eye, it appears to be out of beat. The over swing after the tick to one side is much greater than to the other side. When looking at the back of the clock, it has more over swing going to the right.

    Begin to experiment with turning the upper saddle one direction of the other the equalize the over swing. It would be easier to do that without the suspension guard, but it doesn't have to come off.

    Kurt
     
  22. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    okay!! I will try in these days to find the right point .... patience is the mother of science .... I'm going to have to fill with patience .... hahaha. thanks for the support I am learning a lot.
     
  23. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned. There should be some small gap between the fork tines and the anchor pin that sticks up through. Usually, that gap is the thickness of a piece of paper. Cut off a small strip and with the pendulum stopped and the anchor pin straight up, see if you can slide the paper between the tine and the pin. If you can't, you'll need to carefully open up the fork tines. I've done that with everything installed...but it's far easier to do it without the suspension guard. You can hold the body of the fork between your fingers and use a screwdriver to wedge the tines open a bit. If you go too far, you'll probably have to remove the suspension unit so you can squeeze the tines back together with your fingers. But do the paper thickness test.

    Kurt
     
  24. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Tomorrow I will do this space test .... thanks !!!
     
  25. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    the test has gone well. I have done what you see in the photos.

    IMG_20180808_065721.jpg IMG_20180808_065714.jpg
     
  26. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I have good news. the clock has been running all night. it seems that it works correctly !! :) How can I put it on time?
     
  27. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Glad the clock is working! To set the current time, wait for the globe to reach a stopping point at the end of a rotation, then lightly grab the globe between your fingers. Use your finger to carefully move the minute hand around to set the correct time...the hour hand will follow the minute hand rotations. You can turn the minute hand either direct to get to the current time.

    If you have a understanding that the clock is gaining or losing time, you need to use the time adjustment "star" I pointed out in one of my photos above.

    Kurt
     
  28. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    When I arrived from work I found the clock stopped. Now I have this problem that is seen in the video. If someone can give me a clue.

     
  29. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    That's what's called fluttering. The fork is too low so when the pallets unlock the escape wheel, the next pallet doesn't catch the escape wheel on the next tooth...it just flutters away like that. The solution is to remove the suspension spring and raise the fork, starting say by 1mm. Then you will need to reinstall and confirm that the clock is in beat. Usually taking a suspension unit off messes with the upper saddle and the beat adjustment.

    Be careful when moving the fork. Don't let the thin suspension spring between the fork and top block to become bent or twisted. If that happens, the clock probably won't run. Also, you may need to recheck your fork-anchor pin gap with the piece of paper.

    Kurt
     
  30. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    You mentioned earlier that the pallets had been adjusted and they were not correct. If the escape wheel teeth were not landing on the locking surface of the pallets it would also cause flutter. Moving the fork up as Kurt suggested can help the teeth land more safely and is much easier than adjusting pallets so hopefully that will cure your problem. Did you look to see how much total rotation you were getting when the clock was running?
     
  31. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I forgot to tell you that this calculation gives me 57 seconds.
     
  32. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Now I have reconfigured it and it is working. but I'm sure I'll still have to fight ...
    :rolleyes:
     
  33. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    thanks for your feedbacks
     
  34. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    57 seconds is pretty fast. Likely you won't be able to turn the time adjuster enough to slow it down. Typically the adjuster is good for 4 minutes per hour which equates to 4 seconds per minute....that's usually 2 seconds either side of the center adjustment position. It suggests that the suspension spring is too thick. Just to be sure, turn the adjuster all the way to the slow or "-" side...then retake the time for 8 beats. If still fast, you're only solutions are to buy a new spring, likely one 0.0001" thinner or use a sandpaper trick to scrub off the excess thickness into a range that will work.

    Kurt
     
  35. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I have adjusted the star above the dial to the minimum with the symbol '-'. as seen in the video. continues giving 57 seconds 8 iterations.

     
  36. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    as you suggested me. I have removed the protection. so you can work better.

    what do you think?

    IMG_20180808_211119.jpg
     
  37. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    it gives me the impression that it is crooked.

    IMG_20180808_211429.jpg
     
  38. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Pedro, you're pretty good at taking pictures and videos! Helps a lot!

    Yup, sure looks like it's running fast. But that twist above the fork is no Bueno. I probably won't try and work anymore on getting this clock stabilized...that twist will throw things off. For one, it's running way fast...not sure what that twist is doing to you. Maybe others have more experience.

    So, you'll need to get a new spring. According to the book, the spring should be 0.003" thick. You might want to verify your existing spring when you take if off the clock. Before disassembling things, make some measurements, specifically the distance you have from the top of the fork to the bottom of the upper saddle. Knowing you were getting flutter, it will probably need to go up higher. Or maybe start in the same spot since you have the twist in the wire. When you remove the top and bottom blocks, you can just cut a new one to the exact same length.

    Kurt
     
  39. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I will follow your advice and I will let the clock rest ... before it makes me go crazy ... hehehe .... I will take a few days of reflection and then I will get down to work ....
    thank you very much for the support. You have a fantastic forum.
     

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