My new clock, what is it? Muller-Schlenker?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Dave T, Dec 26, 2017.

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  1. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Picked this old clock up today. When I saw it, I had reservations. But drug it home anyway. Didn't know what it was and not completely sure yet, if it's worth what I paid for it.
    Anyway, here are some pictures. Would love to find out what it is, what it's worth, and where I can find the missing pieces. German Regulator two weight 8.jpg German Regulator two weight 6.jpg German Regulator two weight 5.jpg German Regulator two weight 4.jpg German Regulator two weight 3.jpg German Regulator two weight 2.jpg German Regulator two weight 1.jpg German Regulator two weight logo.jpg German Regulator two weight.jpg
     
  2. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

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    Hi all!
    Dave, you have a beautiful case! I found a pic with a similar case and a close serial number of movement 86407.

    Here is another similar topic Fake Gustav Becker

    BR, Tatyana

    86_407.jpg
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Dave T: To answer one of your questions, yes, the logo on the back of the movement is indeed that of Müller-Schlenker (also known later as EMES).

    You don't really show exactly what is missing, but I can see that the two lower finials are missing and I think the bottom pediment block. These can be supplied (reproductions) by the usual suppliers (Timesavers and others). What else is missing?

    Cleaned up and polished your clock will look very fine. We are not allowed to give values or estimates here but you could post the question in the 'What is this clock worth' section, if you really want to. But you are not sitting on a fortune, just a nice clock that will last you for many years once cleaned and restored.

    JTD
     
  4. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Greetings Dave,

    this is a very interesting and rare clock! It was made by Johannes Mueller (1855-1934), the founder of Mueller-Schlenker in Schwenningen (BF)

    Johannes Mueller was one of the very few clockmakers of the Black Forest who produced original Viennas. Mueller-Schlenker clocks must not shy away from a comparison with clocks made in Silesia (Gustav Becker, Germania et al.).

    Congrats, a very rare find! I would be glad if you will show us this clock in restored condition.

    Chronologiker
     
  5. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks for the info all. It's going to be a while before you see the finished product, but that is my intent. It has several missing parts which I'll have to source from somewhere, not sure where yet.
    Thanks JT, So far, what I see missing is the suspension spring, and I'm not sure which one it should even have. Also, one thumb screw for mounting the movement in the case, The second hand is partially missing, broken off. The hour hand is gone, and I imagine if I find one, it will have to be sized to the movement? One of my biggest concerns so far. And there is one post missing on the dial for mounting to the movement. Wonder who can repair this, or give me some guidance on how to do it without cracking the porcelain dial?

    Then, there's the case of course, all the finials are missing, but I think I can get those easily. Not sure they will be exactly like the original, but I'll try to find a close example. Need to fine some thin veneer that will blend in or closely match the original. Not sure what it is. Looks like walnut to me. This clock has a pile of dust and dirt on it from sitting for years evidently. When I get it cleaned up, it might polish up to the point I don't have to refinish it entirely. We'll see.

    Yea, I know it's no major find, but since I only paid $110 for it, it will be fun to see what I can do with it. The movement looks to be very sound with hardly any wear on the bushings, pinions or gears.

    I will have a lot of questions before this one is finished!
     
  6. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thank you Chrono.. Appreciate the info on the origin. Based on the number on the movement, (77320) I'd guess that my clock is one of the later production?
    I plan to see this clock put back into service, but it will be a while before you see any pictures!
     
  7. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks for the link, I actually did see that. Inspires me to try and make something of mine.
    I'm adding some backside pictures that shows some markings I can't quite make out. Maybe someone here can.
    German Regulator two weight 13.jpg German Regulator two weight 12.jpg German Regulator two weight 11.jpg German Regulator two weight 10.jpg German Regulator two weight 9.jpg
     
  8. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I don't think that you need worry very much about the marks on the back. The stamped mark, which is incomplete, looks as if the first part may have been Gesetz...... which is the first part of the German word Gesetzlich, meaning legally. It might have said Gesetzlich geschützt, legally protected (as in a type of patent) but that is only a guess. Someone else may be able to enlarge it better than I and see something else.

    The pencilled marks are likely a warehouse or packer's inventory mark. It says No. 3464, followed by some mark, possibly X I AB.

    I don't think they are important to you while restoring your clock.

    JTD
     
  9. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

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  10. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Well, regarding case and movement I would date your clock about 1900. Also, there are indications in the history of Mueller-Schlenker that the production of weight-driven Viennas in 1905 was completed.

    Mueller-Schlenker (later EMES) was founded in 1879 and was closed in 2000. In case you are interested in the history of Mueller-Schlenker see the entry in "Lexikon der Deutschen Uhrenindustrie 1850-1980" (3. Edition 2017)

    Regards!

    Chronologiker
     
  11. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks again, I actually saw that site but have yet to figure out how to translate to English! The pictures of the restoration are amazing. Well done job!
     
  12. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I looked briefly for that link and see that it's published in German! But thanks.
    By the way, I found a suspension spring that will work in this clock and have it running. But it's got a weak pulse and not much pendulum swing. Not sure how to figure out which spring it should have yet. On the other hand, the movement is very dirty, and dry. I won't let it run long that way.
     
  13. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Don't worry too much about translating the Polish words, in this thread the photos (which are very good) are the important thing, and give you most of the information you need. As you scroll down, you will see the weights, hands, all the finials and the bottom pediment and so on, all the parts you are missing. You need to scroll all the way down to see them all, but by the time you get to the bottom.

    Hope this helps.

    JTD
     
  14. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks JT, I'll look again. Right now I'm wondering where I will source the parts I need for this clock. One weight needs serious attention or replacement, I don't know what suspension spring I need, and the hour hand is also missing. I imagine it will have to be sized to the hour tube? I know Timesavers, but you have to know what you're buying from them.
     
  15. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Everything you need is easily available. Suspension spring length is not super-critical, new weights are easy to buy (or you can get old ones on E-Bay), finials easily to find (and when you look again at those Polish pictures you will see the sort you need). Don't worry so much, you'll be fine and end up having a very nice clock!

    JTD
     
  16. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Think I have all the parts I need now for this clock except for the hour hand. I bought one from Timesavers, part no. 20411 that looks correct, but it's not even close to fitting. And on top of that they are made of very flimsy material. aluminum?
    I'd like to find an original hand that matches the minute hand I have, or a pair of matching hands that are correct for the clock, made of substantial material and most important fit the hour tube.
    Near as I can tell, mine measures 5 to 5.2mm front to back.
    My original minute hand measure 87mm from center of hole to tip of the hand. I'm posting all of this here in hopes someone can tell me where to search for the hour hand, and exactly what type clock it fits. I'm pretty sure there's one somewhere in Poland or Germany, but don't know how to find it.
    With the proper information I can list it in parts wanted.
    Muller Schlenker minute hand 1  87mm.jpg Muller Schlenker minute hand.jpg
     
  17. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Here's another thought. The hand I received measure 4.6mm inside and 5.5mm outside with slots on both sides.
    Is it possible or normally accepted to file out the brass and then spread the slots to fit?
    Here's the Timesavers hand
    Muller Schlenker hour hand.jpg
     
  18. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    And then the second hand question? Here's what's left of mine. I assume the other end was just straight and flat on the end.
    Muller Schlenker second hand.jpg
     
  19. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    These clocks don’t have a wide pendulum swing. 7/8” to 1.5” is the norm for my assortment of weight-driven Viennas.

    Jim
     
  20. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Took a while, and the case still needs a little work but I'm getting there.
    Muller Schlenker 21.jpg
     
  21. MLS

    MLS Registered User
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    It’s a beauty. I hope to luck upon one in the future. Good work on bringing it back to life
     
  22. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Congrats! A Vienna made in Württemberg!

    Chronologiker
     
  23. OVWRpl

    OVWRpl Registered User

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    Hello, I'm new here.
    I got to the topic about the clocks Muller and Schlenker, looking for some information about the clock that I have.
    Are the Viennese clocks of this company really rare? In fact, I don't find much information.
    In Poland clocks produced in many factories from Świebodzice (Freiburg) are much more widespread, including the famous Gustav Becker.
    I present my clock Muller und Schlenker coming probably from around 1900. Preserved almost in the original - the seconds hand comes from a different clock. Has recently undergone a major refurbishment of the mechanism and chest that has been finished with french polish.

    DSC02272.JPG
     
  24. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    That's a gorgeous clock. The nicest finish I've seen on any clock lately. Puts mine to shame!

    Can you post a picture or two of the movement, and serial number?
     
  25. OVWRpl

    OVWRpl Registered User

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    Thank you, I tried to do the renovation as best as possible.
    I found two old photos still before renovation.

    IMG_9808.JPG M&S.jpg
     
  26. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    From what I can tell, it's the exact same movement. Ser. No. on mine is 77320. So they must have made quite a few of these, but we don't see many survivors.
     

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