My first clock

[Philip Snowden]

In 1972 I moved to Balham in south London with my girlfriend.We had a Milkman called Stan .He asked us to Sunday dinner at his Prefab in Lewisham when we went in the place was crammed with antiques and clocks .Where did you get these Stan I asked he said Skips and Junk shops. I was Gone Totally!!
Went to a clock shop in Balham on the Monday called Allnuts and he had 8 dial clocks on the wall £20 each I bought the one that to me looked the oldest and still have it.
My girlfriend then is still my wife and has been very patient with me for all these years but never looks at the clocks just not interested.
Have met a lot of fantastic clock people along the way but unfortunately most of them have passed on now but Stan is still around and he restores movements for me and even clock cases if they not too bad

 

[Mike Phelan]

Two English Dial clocks and one American one I was given when I left secondary school in the 1960s - they gave them to me having replaced them with a master and a few slaves. If only I had kept them ...

 

[Jevan]

Years ago I knew someone who at one time was workshop foreman in the Camerer Cuss clock department.

In conversation he told me during the commercial premises fashion of replacing spring driven wall clocks for electric clocks Camerer Cuss had amassed a considerable amount of discarded fusee wall clocks.

He said that eventually the discarded clocks became an inconvenience so they ordered rubbish skips and trashed the lot!


It's not uncommon for old stories like this to become embellished... but I believe it.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Two English Dial clocks and one American one I was given when I left secondary school in the 1960s - they gave them to me having replaced them with a master and a few slaves. If only I had kept them ...

Well there you go Mike how many times have I said if only the main one was I sold a lot of gold gold just before it went up the first time .But haven’t also bought clocks and wished later that I had but that’s life as they say.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Years ago I knew someone who at one time was workshop foreman in the Camerer Cuss clock department.

In conversation he told me during the commercial premises fashion of replacing spring driven wall clocks for electric clocks Camerer Cuss had amassed a considerable amount of discarded fusee wall clocks.

He said that eventually the discarded clocks became an inconvenience so they ordered rubbish skips and trashed the lot!


It's not uncommon for old stories like this to become embellished... but I believe it.

Lots of stories like that here as factories, schools, etc., transitioned to electric clocks in the mid-20th century.

Just as many a public space in the UK had what would now be considered decent quality clocks, same in the US.

For example, there was a famous clock maker in Weymouth, MA named Elmer Stennis. Quite the story surrounding him re: the murder of his wife, his time spent in jail, and his subsequent murder and so on. Anyhow, he made very high quality reproductions of American clocks: tall case, banjo, lyre, girandole and so on. Considered very collectible.

During at least part of the time span he was making these, there was available large #'s of Howard wall clocks cheaply available as they had been removed in large numbers from schools, municipal offices and the like. He would buy them for the movements to install in his clocks. Then, once/year, he would burn the cases in a large bonfire in the backyard of his home @ 2 Tick Tock Lane. My source for this was Foster Campos, who worked for Stennis and whose reproductions are also very much respected and collectible.

Now it's hard to imaging buying Howard clocks that would otherwise have gone to the landfill for just their movements and burning their cases!! Also the fate of many ST # 2's, and other now considered desirable wall clocks.

However, with falling prices and less interest, that may be their fate again.

RM

 

[Philip Snowden]

Years ago I knew someone who at one time was workshop foreman in the Camerer Cuss clock department.

In conversation he told me during the commercial premises fashion of replacing spring driven wall clocks for electric clocks Camerer Cuss had amassed a considerable amount of discarded fusee wall clocks.

He said that eventually the discarded clocks became an inconvenience so they ordered rubbish skips and trashed the lot!


It's not uncommon for old stories like this to become embellished... but I believe it.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Years ago I knew someone who at one time was workshop foreman in the Camerer Cuss clock department.

In conversation he told me during the commercial premises fashion of replacing spring driven wall clocks for electric clocks Camerer Cuss had amassed a considerable amount of discarded fusee wall clocks.

He said that eventually the discarded clocks became an inconvenience so they ordered rubbish skips and trashed the lot!


It's not uncommon for old stories like this to become embellished... but I believe it.

Just hope they never threw any away like this 8 inch convex one.

 

[Jim DuBois]

Lots of stories like that here as factories, schools, etc., transitioned to electric clocks in the mid-20th century.

Now it's hard to imaging buying Howard clocks that would otherwise have gone to the landfill for just their movements and burning their cases!! Also the fate of many ST # 2's, and other now considered desirable wall clocks.

However, with falling prices and less interest, that may be their fate again.

RM

There was a story in the Indianapolis Star IIRC about all the old clocks out of the school system being burnt in a field and over $700 worth of brass was salvaged for the WWII war effort. Pretty scary what was lost there. At least Stennis saved the movements.

About 1970-1971 I remember visiting a fellow by the name of Russ Meyer in Portland Indiana to look at some clocks. He had a stack of regulators and other RR clocks under a tarp in his carport. Must have been 100 or more out of the midwest railway services. I remember a number of Howards, an 89 I think as well as several large banjos come to mind. I didn't have money to buy any of them. ($100-$200)

 

[Jevan]

Just hope they never threw any away like this 8 inch convex one.

That was the first one to go

 

[Philip Snowden]

That was the first one to go

And I managed to get it .

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

There was a story in the Indianapolis Star IIRC about all the old clocks out of the school system being burnt in a field and over $700 worth of brass was salvaged for the WWII war effort. Pretty scary what was lost there. At least Stennis saved the movements.

About 1970-1971 I remember visiting a fellow by the name of Russ Meyer in Portland Indiana to look at some clocks. He had a stack of regulators and other RR clocks under a tarp in his carport. Must have been 100 or more out of the midwest railway services. I remember a number of Howards, an 89 I think as well as several large banjos come to mind. I didn't have money to buy any of them. ($100-$200)

Almost as sad as all of the painted furniture that got skinned for the "knotty pine" look.

RM

 

[Philip Snowden]

In 1972 I moved to Balham in south London with my girlfriend.We had a Milkman called Stan .He asked us to Sunday dinner at his Prefab in Lewisham when we went in the place was crammed with antiques and clocks .Where did you get these Stan I asked he said Skips and Junk shops. I was Gone Totally!!
Went to a clock shop in Balham on the Monday called Allnuts and he had 8 dial clocks on the wall £20 each I bought the one that to me looked the oldest and still have it.
My girlfriend then is still my wife and has been very patient with me for all these years but never looks at the clocks just not interested.
Have met a lot of fantastic clock people along the way but unfortunately most of them have passed on now but Stan is still around and he restores movements for me and even clock cases if they not too bad

View attachment 715623

 

[novicetimekeeper]

My first clock was a German napoleon hat with Westminster chimes. Bought it in 78 at a jumble sale. I had wanted a longcase from seeing one in my childhood, but it was decades before I got one.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

My first clock was a German napoleon hat with Westminster chimes. Bought it in 78 at a jumble sale. I had wanted a longcase from seeing one in my childhood, but it was decades before I got one.

Good things come to those who wait.

RM

 

[Tim Orr]

Good afternoon, Phillip!

Great to hear from someone from the "Gateway to the South" (According to the "Goons"). Nice looking clock. Is it by chance a Garrard? I have one marked Llanelli in Wales. I sent an inquiry to the mayor of the town, which he passed along to the chief librarian, and learned that the "Thomas" clock I have belonged to a merchant there.

Best regards!

Tim Orr

 

[Philip Snowden]

Good afternoon, Phillip!

Great to hear from someone from the "Gateway to the South" (According to the "Goons"). Nice looking clock. Is it by chance a Garrard? I have one marked Llanelli in Wales. I sent an inquiry to the mayor of the town, which he passed along to the chief librarian, and learned that the "Thomas" clock I have belonged to a merchant there.

Best regards!

Tim Orr

Ha Ha you know that about Balham Gateway to the south I’d forgotten all about that .No don‘t think it’s a Garrard down there in Penryn .It is a top quality case about 1875 ish .Yours sounds very interesting belonging to a merchant there in Wales .who was your favourite Goon ? Bet it was Spike I often saw him in Balham in the early 70s in a real flash sports car .That’s bought back memories .Thanks Tim .PS Of course Thomas is a Welsh name .

 

[Philip Snowden]

Ha Ha you know that about Balham Gateway to the south I’d forgotten all about that .No don‘t think it’s a Garrard down there in Penryn .It is a top quality case about 1890 ish .Yours sounds very interesting belonging to a merchant there in Wales .who was your favourite Goon ? Bet it was Spike I often saw him in Balham in the early 70s in a real flash sports car .That’s bought back memories .Thanks Tim .PS Of course Thomas is a Welsh name .

This is the back box always thought it real quality can’t make up my mind if it’s fruitwood or very light mahogany.Only thing I not keen on is the spun Bezel .But for my first clock I’m happy.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Lots of stories like that here as factories, schools, etc., transitioned to electric clocks in the mid-20th century.

Just as many a public space in the UK had what would now be considered decent quality clocks, same in the US.

For example, there was a famous clock maker in Weymouth, MA named Elmer Stennis. Quite the story surrounding him re: the murder of his wife, his time spent in jail, and his subsequent murder and so on. Anyhow, he made very high quality reproductions of American clocks: tall case, banjo, lyre, girandole and so on. Considered very collectible.

During at least part of the time span he was making these, there was available large #'s of Howard wall clocks cheaply available as they had been removed in large numbers from schools, municipal offices and the like. He would buy them for the movements to install in his clocks. Then, once/year, he would burn the cases in a large bonfire in the backyard of his home @ 2 Tick Tock Lane. My source for this was Foster Campos, who worked for Stennis and whose reproductions are also very much respected and collectible.

Now it's hard to imaging buying Howard clocks that would otherwise have gone to the landfill for just their movements and burning their cases!! Also the fate of many ST # 2's, and other now considered desirable wall clocks.

However, with falling prices and less interest, that may be their fate again.

RM

If that’s his address and not a wind up it’s brilliant .Mr Markowitz .

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

If that’s his address and not a wind up it’s brilliant .Mr Markowitz .

Yes, that's what the house was called. The street it's on has been officially renamed Tick Tock Lane.

FYI, I just caught my 2 earlier typos. It's Elmer STENNES and it's ONE Tick Tock Lane, not two. Sorry.

Years ago I lived close by in E. Weymouth.

Here's an early photo of Stennes' property:



Note that Mr. Stennes bought all of those wonderful (Howard?) public clocks for the movements! They would be worth a lot now. That's his son Elliot posing with them. Remember that cute little boy!

Here's a link to a good article that appeared in Yankee Magazine telling the rather sordid story of Mr. Stennes' crime and subsequent murder:

stennes_jeanne_yankee_9_97.pdf (jeanneschinto.com)

I knew some of the folks interviewed for that article, e.g., the late Mr. McCulloch and his wife who were some of the first antiques dealers that I met upon moving to MA over 30 years ago. I still own a wonderful leaded glass lamp I bought in those early days from his shop in Hingham, MA.

That once cute little boy Elliot grew up and was suspected of shooting Mr. Stennes and his new wife after Stennes' release from prison for murdering his second wife (Elliot's mother), killing him and wounding her. Never proven. Quite a few years ago now I worked with a nurse who grew up in E. Weymouth and went to school with Elliot. She remembers that Elliot would show up falling down drunk to junior high school. I heard that his alibi was that he was too drunk to have driven to E. Weymouth from NH the night of the murder.

Sorry of the typical hijack.

RM

 

[demoman3955]

Almost as sad as all of the painted furniture that got skinned for the "knotty pine" look.

RM

or nice wood painted over and scuffed up to look old.

 

[Tim Orr]

Good evening, Phillip!

No, it was a typical Yank choice: It was Sellers.

Later, when I worked in radio, I succeeded in getting us to broadcast recordings of "Round the Horne." "How nice to varda your old eek again!"

Beat regards!

Tim

 

[Micam100]

who was your favourite Goon ? Bet it was Spike

A poem by Spike Milligan with a horological reference:

When I Suspected by Spike Milligan

Michael

 

[Philip Snowden]

Yes, that's what the house was called. The street it's on has been officially renamed Tick Tock Lane.

FYI, I just caught my 2 earlier typos. It's Elmer STENNES and it's ONE Tick Tock Lane, not two. Sorry.

Years ago I lived close by in E. Weymouth.

Here's an early photo of Stennes' property:

View attachment 715726

Note that Mr. Stennes bought all of those wonderful (Howard?) public clocks for the movements! They would be worth a lot now. That's his son Elliot posing with them. Remember that cute little boy!

Here's a link to a good article that appeared in Yankee Magazine telling the rather sordid story of Mr. Stennes' crime and subsequent murder:

stennes_jeanne_yankee_9_97.pdf (jeanneschinto.com)

I knew some of the folks interviewed for that article, e.g., the late Mr. McCulloch and his wife who were some of the first antiques dealers that I met upon moving to MA over 30 years ago. I still own a wonderful leaded glass lamp I bought in those early days from his shop in Hingham, MA.

That once cute little boy Elliot grew up and was suspected of shooting Mr. Stennes and his new wife after Stennes' release from prison for murdering his second wife (Elliot's mother), killing him and wounding her. Never proven. Quite a few years ago now I worked with a nurse who grew up in E. Weymouth and went to school with Elliot. She remembers that Elliot would show up falling down drunk to junior high school. I heard that his alibi was that he was too drunk to have driven to E. Weymouth from NH the night of the murder.

Sorry of the typical hijack.

RM

Wow what a life that guy Stennis had a very interesting story .Thanks R M

 

[Philip Snowden]

Good evening, Phillip!

No, it was a typical Yank choice: It was Sellers.

Later, when I worked in radio, I succeeded in getting us to broadcast recordings of "Round the Horne." "How nice to varda your old eek again!"

Beat regards!

Tim

When living at home we had to listen to the Goons on the radio with Dad and later Round the Horne still at home we listened to because no matter ho old you are it’s my house then in 67 I moved to London and been here ever since.Had I not met Stan the milkman would I have been a manic clock and antique collector who knows.But I still have a soft spot for my home town ..Regards Phil

 

[Philip Snowden]

A poem by Spike Milligan with a horological reference:

When I Suspected by Spike Milligan

Michael

I had two very good friends who were top clock restorers and would you believe they both died at the age 65 and I thought their epitaph should have been .They we’re good to Time but Time wasn’t good to them .

 

[Micam100]

Spike's epitaph said (in part) "I told you I was ill" Of course, you would know this but maybe not everyone here is familiar with him.
Michael

 

[Philip Snowden]

Yes, that's what the house was called. The street it's on has been officially renamed Tick Tock Lane.

FYI, I just caught my 2 earlier typos. It's Elmer STENNES and it's ONE Tick Tock Lane, not two. Sorry.

Years ago I lived close by in E. Weymouth.

Here's an early photo of Stennes' property:

View attachment 715726

Note that Mr. Stennes bought all of those wonderful (Howard?) public clocks for the movements! They would be worth a lot now. That's his son Elliot posing with them. Remember that cute little boy!

Here's a link to a good article that appeared in Yankee Magazine telling the rather sordid story of Mr. Stennes' crime and subsequent murder:

stennes_jeanne_yankee_9_97.pdf (jeanneschinto.com)

I knew some of the folks interviewed for that article, e.g., the late Mr. McCulloch and his wife who were some of the first antiques dealers that I met upon moving to MA over 30 years ago. I still own a wonderful leaded glass lamp I bought in those early days from his shop in Hingham, MA.

That once cute little boy Elliot grew up and was suspected of shooting Mr. Stennes and his new wife after Stennes' release from prison for murdering his second wife (Elliot's mother), killing him and wounding her. Never proven. Quite a few years ago now I worked with a nurse who grew up in E. Weymouth and went to school with Elliot. She remembers that Elliot would show up falling down drunk to junior high school. I heard that his alibi was that he was too drunk to have driven to E. Weymouth from NH the night of the murder.

Sorry of the typical hijack.

RM

No problem that was a very interesting story what a life the guy led .

 

[Mike Phelan]

When living at home we had to listen to the Goons on the radio with Dad and later Round the Horne still at home we listened to because no matter ho old you are it’s my house then in 67 I moved to London and been here ever since.Had I not met Stan the milkman would I have been a manic clock and antique collector who knows.But I still have a soft spot for my home town ..Regards Phil

Ah yes, the wonderful Goons. When we were in the yard at break time, when I was at secondary school, the main subject was last nights' Goon Show and Round the Horne. I still have a book of all the scripts and some of Spike's books, as well as the later Monty Python ones - another wonderful TV show. The milkman skctches and the dead parrot ones are priceless.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

No problem that was a very interesting story what a life the guy led .

Yes, quite the character, and not in a charming sort of way from what I have been told. In all fairness, I never met him and he's not around to defend himself.

Very talented, by report, very disturbed.

I knew some of the folks, now gone, who visited the home the day he is said to have shot his wife. To a person they all said that they had a bad feeling based upon his mood that day and his drinking, but I don't think any of them believed that it would culminate in murder.

Just like everything, there's the back-up conspiracy theory. I had someone who really didn't know him or was present (that never stops the conspiracy theorist) that it was his son who shot his wife and he took the fall for him. It's also the explanation for his incredibly lenient treatment. Well, I think it has more to do with being friends with a judge and other connections.

By the way, I own one of his banjo clocks and it's really nice.

RM

 

[Jim DuBois]

I met Stennes about 2 months before he was murdered. It was at the Cleveland National in 1975. I was pretty much a new collector, who like many new collectors, I was prone to be a bit unknowledgeable and didn't always hide that trait well. Elmer had a very small style of a Howard 89 that I liked and wanted. What I remember most about him was he was completely unpleasant to me when there was no need to be. I don't remember him fondly but he did produce a lot of nice clocks. I have never owned one and never will, at least in no small part due to his behavior so very long ago. I am not "gladdened" by his clocks but respect the craftsmanship for certain.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Ah yes, the wonderful Goons. When we were in the yard at break time, when I was at secondary school, the main subject was last nights' Goon Show and Round the Horne. I still have a book of all the scripts and some of Spike's books, as well as the later Monty Python ones - another wonderful TV show. The milkman skctches and the dead parrot ones are priceless.

Yes Mike we had a guy next door for the last days of his life he was in things with Spike and one of my favourites is Irish Noughts and crosses where Keith Smith was the nobly kneed referee it’s funny .

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

I met Stennes about 2 months before he was murdered. It was at the Cleveland National in 1975. I was pretty much a new collector, who like many new collectors, I was prone to be a bit unknowledgeable and didn't always hide that trait well. Elmer had a very small style of a Howard 89 that I liked and wanted. What I remember most about him was he was completely unpleasant to me when there was no need to be. I don't remember him fondly but he did produce a lot of nice clocks. I have never owned one and never will, at least in no small part due to his behavior so very long ago. I am not "gladdened" by his clocks but respect the craftsmanship for certain.

Yours, from what I understand, was not a singular experience!

RM