My first 400 day clock

[Dave P]

Last winter and early spring I started working on a schatz 49 and got totally sidelined by other stuff. So I am back. Basically I've totally disassembled and cleaned the clock, no problems there. I called the Horolovar company and talked with Bill Ellison and ordered a new suspension spring complete. My plate number is 1278. I believe I am in beat or very very close to in beat. So after 2 hours of running my pendulum turns 100 degrees to the right from center to 100 degrees to the left of center. If you were looking at it from the top down and your starting position of the ball is 6, my ball will go to about the 2 and then come back and go to the 10. I haven't noticed any flutter. If it stays running is this an acceptable amount of turn, other 400 day clocks I've seen have turned a quarter (90 degrees) more. Thanks for the help. Dave P

 

[Jeff C]

Congratulations Dave they are fun aren't they
As a general rule 270 degrees or 3/4 of turn is the norm. I have some that operate perfectly fine with a little less or more than the norm of 270 degrees.

A little visual aid I use is that I veiw a point on the pendulum (ball which I assume you have) as 12 O'clock then watch it rotate and if it comes to the 9 O'clock position thats my 270 degrees.

Good luck

Jeff

 

[John Hubby]

Dave, Jeff is correct that many of these clocks operate quite happily with only 200 degrees of rotation.

However, there are some checks you can make that will help increase rotation. Test for rotation after making each check in the order listed, you may not need to complete all of them to get 270 degrees:

1) Check to see that the upper suspension block is not "loose" in the saddle. If it is loose this will cause a loss of power and less pendulum rotation. The block should be snug but not tight in the saddle slot. If it is too loose, use a shim made of paper to close the gap.

2) Check the clearance between the anchor pin and the suspension fork tines. If it is too small, there will be some binding that will reduce rotation. If it is too large, there will be too much "slack" and loss of power, again causing loss of rotation. You can check the clearance by cutting a 1/4-inch wide strip of paper and sliding it between the anchor pin and one of the fork tines. If it goes through too easily (no resistance) the clearance is too big, and can be reduced by removing the suspension, squeezing the tines together slightly, and reinstalling. If the paper won't slide through, or is very tight, then you need to open up the clearance. Same procedure except use a flat blade screwdriver placed between the tines, twist slightly to open them up.

3) Raise the suspension fork on the suspension spring (wire). This will increase total rotation, but will also decrease overswing. Overswing is the amount the pendulum continues to turn after the escapement "ticks". If your clock is in beat, you will have equal overswing in both directions of rotation. Normally the overswing will be in the order of 3/8 inch (minimum) to more than an inch, when measured at the outermost point of one of the pendulum balls. Before raising the fork on your clock, first check to see how much overswing you have. If it's 1/2 inch or more, then raise the fork by about 1 mm, check the beat, and again check the overswing. You should gain about 10-15 degrees rotation with this adjustment. You can raise further if you want, but be careful to maintain a minimum of at least 3/8 inch of overswing.

As noted above, go through these test one at a time and in the order listed. When you get to the third item, it will be trial and error to find the optimum adjustment for your clock.

John Hubby
>>>>

 

[Dave P]

Thanks Jeff and John, I think I am getting closer. I don't think I was absolutly in beat, but I am getting much closer. In my additional adjustments I moved the saddle and had to start over. I tightened the suspension fork tines as suggested in 2. The clock has been running for 7 hours now and looks good (not advancing due to flutter). I like the idea of measuring the distance after it has tocked to get it into beat. DAVE P

 

[Willie X]

Dave,

200 is short for your clock. 270 degrees (3/4 turn) or more, with a 2 second overswing, would be more like it.

This would hold true for probably more than 90% of all 400 day clocks.

You may want to check the arcives, as there are many post similar to yours, with many good replies similar to the good ones you have already gotten.

Good luck, Willie X

 

[Dave P]

I'm getting 270 degrees now and yesterday I was running 30 minutes slow a day. So I adjusted my pendulum balls inward probably 5 turns, I'm right in the middle of the adjustment correction area. Left it and came back this morning and my clock stopped after 6 hours. I started it just a few minutes ago, meassured that my marks where the tic and toc occured were correct, and keeping my fingers crossed.

I use the Horolovar adjusting tool to help me set the clock in beat. When you make an adjustment is it immeadiately noticable or do you need to wait a few minutes for everything to settle down again. Dave P

 

[Willie X]

Dave,

It is imediately noticeable.

A really good tip on 400 days is to check them with the beat amp always clipped in the same area with the gain control always at the same mark. This way, over time, you can easily learn to hear the difference in a healthy (or sick) 400 day. You can do this without the beat amp too, just look straight at the clock from a set distance of about 2 feet. Even with my old gun-shot and rock-n-roll damaged ears it is very clear to pick up on the sound made by a healyhy 400 day. This tip works for Hermle balance clocks too.

Good luck, Willie

 

[Dave P]

I think I may have a slightly sick Tic Tock. When observing the escape wheel through the two peep holes from the rear the EW is turning clockwise. When the exit pallet engages the EW(visible through the right peep hole and the pendulum is swinging right, clock wise) the tic is really pronounced. When the entrance pallet engages the EW (visible through the left peep hole and the pendulum is swinging counter clockwise) the toc is much weaker. I'm thinking I may not be in perfect beat. I am also noticing that my overswing on my clockwise rotation is about 5/8 of an inch while while my counter clockwise overswing is 3/8 of an inch or maybe less. So with my Horolovar adjusting tool attached to the saddle do I move it (the Horolovar adjusting tool) clockwise or counter clockwise to bring it into beat?

Clock is running now 6 hours and time looks good, might be a hair fast. Dave P

 

[Willie X]

You move it in the direction the pendulum is moving for the 'short' tick. This adjustment should be a close a possible. It can be optomised by manually reducing the swing to a minimum. If it will tick both directions with a tiny overswing, the beat is good.

You are having some trouble with the pendulum amplitude so the beat needs to be a close as you can get it.

Another quick test to see if the movement is going to run OK is to let the MS all the way down and then wind it up, three strokes of the key (1 1/2 turn) after you feel the slightest resistance. If it will run for a few days without stopping, all is likely to be well well.

Willie X

 

[Dave P]

WX, appreciate your help. One more question if I may. I'm getting pretty good at getting the clock in beat. I'm practicing because every time I'm satisfied it's in beat I go to tighten the screw that holds the saddle and I move the saddle enough that it is out of beat again. So I loosen the screw and start over. I know there has to be a trick to this I just haven't figured it out yet. Thanks Dave P

 

[ChuckR]

Dave,
The best way I have found to tighten the locking screw is to do the following. First I will tighten the screw so it is just snug. After geting the beat close I will tighten the screw a little more as you will not need to make big adjustments any more. Then when I have it where I want it, I may snug it a little more or if I feel it is tight enough I will leave it. All you really need is it to be tight enough to keep the saddle from moving. When moving the clock, I always carefully remove the pendulum and then reattach it after the clock is place in its new spot. I feel that helps prevent it from getting out of beat. Just my .02 cents.

Chuck

 

[Dave P]

Am I doing something wrong or is there something mechanical going on. I'm using the Horolovar tool for setting the clock in beat. I've tightened the screw, on the saddle, and leave the tool in place and the clock continues to run and is in beat. I very carefully remove the tool and the clock is out of beat. The screw is tight holding the saddle. I place the tool back on the saddle, loosen the screw and start all over again. I'm thinking 2 things, when I unscrew the wing screw on the Horolovar tool I must be moving the saddle some; or the weight of the tool is having some kind of effect on the saddle. I'm going to leave the tool on till I hear back from some of you. Thanks for the help Dave

 

[Dave P]

I think I've found a problem. In all my times of setting the beat over and over again, I now notice that the suspension spring is twisted between the top block and the suspension fork. If you look in Terwilligers book 400 day clocks page 55 I'm talking about the part labeled sp. I have a 1/4 turn in the spring compared to the rest of the spring when it is stopped in the neutral or resting position. I'll turn the saddle and get the spring hanging straight at the resting position and see what happens. DAVE

 

[Kevin W.]

Hi Dave sounds like you are learning lots and having fun.
These clocks require patience.
I have found when these clocks are in beat they run well, and i love to watch the pendulum.
Good luck with your clock.

 

[Dave P]

Dave, Jeff is correct that many of these clocks operate quite happily with only 200 degrees of rotation.

However, there are some checks you can make that will help increase rotation. Test for rotation after making each check in the order listed, you may not need to complete all of them to get 270 degrees:

1) Check to see that the upper suspension block is not "loose" in the saddle. If it is loose this will cause a loss of power and less pendulum rotation. The block should be snug but not tight in the saddle slot. If it is too loose, use a shim made of paper to close the gap.

2) Check the clearance between the anchor pin and the suspension fork tines. If it is too small, there will be some binding that will reduce rotation. If it is too large, there will be too much "slack" and loss of power, again causing loss of rotation. You can check the clearance by cutting a 1/4-inch wide strip of paper and sliding it between the anchor pin and one of the fork tines. If it goes through too easily (no resistance) the clearance is too big, and can be reduced by removing the suspension, squeezing the tines together slightly, and reinstalling. If the paper won't slide through, or is very tight, then you need to open up the clearance. Same procedure except use a flat blade screwdriver placed between the tines, twist slightly to open them up.

3) Raise the suspension fork on the suspension spring (wire). This will increase total rotation, but will also decrease overswing. Overswing is the amount the pendulum continues to turn after the escapement "ticks". If your clock is in beat, you will have equal overswing in both directions of rotation. Normally the overswing will be in the order of 3/8 inch (minimum) to more than an inch, when measured at the outermost point of one of the pendulum balls. Before raising the fork on your clock, first check to see how much overswing you have. If it's 1/2 inch or more, then raise the fork by about 1 mm, check the beat, and again check the overswing. You should gain about 10-15 degrees rotation with this adjustment. You can raise further if you want, but be careful to maintain a minimum of at least 3/8 inch of overswing.

As noted above, go through these test one at a time and in the order listed. When you get to the third item, it will be trial and error to find the optimum adjustment for your clock.

John Hubby
>>>>

Well I decided to raise the suspension fork just a hair and I am really frustrated now. The pallets just go in and out of the same tooth on the escape wheel. No tick tock. I've turned the saddle perhaps 20 degrees in either direction and still nothing. Should I turn it more? Can I hurt anything? I guess I need to practice "if it aint broke leave it alone". DAVE

 

[harold bain]

Dave, can you move the anchor manually, to advance the escapewheel? If so, you may be out of beat. If not, you have a power problem.

 

[Dave P]

Dave, can you move the anchor manually, to advance the escapewheel? If so, you may be out of beat. If not, you have a power problem.

Harold, I think I am really out of beat, when I raised the suspension fork could that have done something. When the pendulum is at rest the pallet on the anchor is closer to being engaged on the entrance side than the exit. I would thing that the anchor pin should be vertical and the pallets equally distributed between entrance and exit on the escape wheel. Am I explaining this correctly? Thanks Dave

 

[John Hubby]

I think I've found a problem. In all my times of setting the beat over and over again, I now notice that the suspension spring is twisted between the top block and the suspension fork. If you look in Terwilligers book 400 day clocks page 55 I'm talking about the part labeled sp. I have a 1/4 turn in the spring compared to the rest of the spring when it is stopped in the neutral or resting position. I'll turn the saddle and get the spring hanging straight at the resting position and see what happens. DAVE

Dave, did you straighten out the suspension spring between the upper block and the suspension fork? If not, that's your immediate problem, 20 degrees one way or the other with the upper block will NOT put the clock in beat. The upper block and the fork MUST BE parallel and the short length of suspension wire completely straight and flat between the two. When this is properly set up, the anchor pin will stand straight up after you have reinstalled the suspension unit.

You can straighten this out by removing the suspension unit, grasp the upper block between two fingers of one hand and the fork with your other hand, pull them slightly to put under tension and twist the two in the opposite direction of the present 1/4 turn out of alignment. Continue to do this until the fork and upper block are parallel when you are holding only the upper block.

This adjustment can also be done using tweezers but the twist method is the easiest.

 

[Dave P]

John/Harold, thank you for getting back to me. OK the upper block and fork are now parallel. One easy twist and they lined right up. While I had the suspension spring off I moved the anchor pin left and right and it advanced the escape wheel. I just left my bench 30 minutes ago and the clock is running. I think I will let it go for a day and see what happens. Thank you, it always amazes me how well people on this board can work a person through a problem. DAVE

 

[Dave P]

Well the clock ran for about an hour and stopped. Tried starting and I noticed that the pallets were staying in the same teeth of the escape wheel. Took the pendulum off moved anchor pin left and right and it did not move the escape wheel. Moved the escape wheel with my finger. When I moved the anchor pin left and right the escape wheel advanced. So do I have a power problem? Do I take apart and re clean. After all it has been siting on my bench for many months without the glass dome on it. If not total cleaning then what, I did totally clean it about a year ago. DAVE

 

[harold bain]

It sounds like it would benefit from a cleaning.

 

[John Hubby]

Also you should check to be sure every pivot is straight, no bent teeth on any of the wheels, and that all arbors have adequate end play. After disassembly and detailed inspection you need to do a test of the train to be sure there isn't anything that causes it to lose power:

• Assemble the movement but leave out the pallet arbor and do not install the motion works (gears on the front that drive the hour hand). Leave the pivots dry, no oil. The reason is that if you have a problem you will need to disassemble the movement and it's better to work with it dry until the problem is resolved. Being dry will not affect the test results. Slowly start winding the mainspring, one click at a time. Observe the escape wheel as you are doing this. If it doesn't start spinning freely by the time you have 3 or 4 clicks on the mainspring, then you have a problem with something binding somewhere in the train.
• To find the problem you will need to again disassemble and then put the clock back together one gear arbor at a time, starting with the mainspring barrel and 1st wheel. Make the same test for each wheel in series until you find the one that is binding. Once that is identified you will most likely be able to see a slightly bent pivot, bent gear tooth, or lack of end play that is the cause. Be sure to look for bent teeth on the mainspring barrel, especially if the barrel appears to be slightly bulged at the barrel hook location, as that could indicate a prior mainspring failure that can easily bend or break mainspring barrel teeth.
• Once the problem is fixed, or if there isn't a problem and the escape wheel spins freely with a couple of clicks on the mainspring, now install the motion works and repeat the test. This will ensure you don't have something binding there.
• When you do have the escape wheel spinning freely with just a few clicks of the mainspring, now you can install the escape arbor and oil the pivots.

At this point you should have a movement that will run well. Install the suspension unit, wind the mainspring, check to be sure the anchor pin clearance is OK and there is no sloppiness of the upper suspension block in the saddle. Set the beat and let it run, all that is left is timekeeping adjustment.

 

[Dave P]

Thank you, looks like I have a project for Saturday. DAVE

 

[Dave P]

Also you should check to be sure every pivot is straight, no bent teeth on any of the wheels, and that all arbors have adequate end play. After disassembly and detailed inspection you need to do a test of the train to be sure there isn't anything that causes it to lose power:

• Assemble the movement but leave out the pallet arbor and do not install the motion works (gears on the front that drive the hour hand). Leave the pivots dry, no oil. The reason is that if you have a problem you will need to disassemble the movement and it's better to work with it dry until the problem is resolved. Being dry will not affect the test results. Slowly start winding the mainspring, one click at a time. Observe the escape wheel as you are doing this. If it doesn't start spinning freely by the time you have 3 or 4 clicks on the mainspring, then you have a problem with something binding somewhere in the train.
• To find the problem you will need to again disassemble and then put the clock back together one gear arbor at a time, starting with the mainspring barrel and 1st wheel. Make the same test for each wheel in series until you find the one that is binding. Once that is identified you will most likely be able to see a slightly bent pivot, bent gear tooth, or lack of end play that is the cause. Be sure to look for bent teeth on the mainspring barrel, especially if the barrel appears to be slightly bulged at the barrel hook location, as that could indicate a prior mainspring failure that can easily bend or break mainspring barrel teeth.
• Once the problem is fixed, or if there isn't a problem and the escape wheel spins freely with a couple of clicks on the mainspring, now install the motion works and repeat the test. This will ensure you don't have something binding there.
• When you do have the escape wheel spinning freely with just a few clicks of the mainspring, now you can install the escape arbor and oil the pivots.

At this point you should have a movement that will run well. Install the suspension unit, wind the mainspring, check to be sure the anchor pin clearance is OK and there is no sloppiness of the upper suspension block in the saddle. Set the beat and let it run, all that is left is timekeeping adjustment.

That was easier than I thought, noticeable dirt on the barrel wheel and on the first pinion and wheel. Cleaned every thing up and with just a single click everything was turning really fast up through the EW. No bent pivots, pivot holes were pegged out and they were clean, pivots were all very clean and polished nothing bent. Put the anchor pallet on centered the anchor pin though the forks placed the suspension spring in the saddle and hung the pendulum. Gave it a single turn and let it go. Been running for a half hour now, I'll go oil it and check on Wednesday. DAVE

 

[Dave P]

OK morning report, clock is still running. Is this in beat? I measure from where the marked ball crosses a point when I hear the click to where it stops and I measure the distance and it is 1 inch and 16/32 in one direction and the other is 1 inch and 12/32. I remove my Horolovar adjusting tool and wait 30 minutes to measure again. My measurements are 1 inch and 14/32 and 1 inch and 6/32 respectively. I used 32nds because that is what my scale reads. When I left the clock last evening I had the "set screw" snug, I have not touched it this morning I intend on not tightening any more.
I plan on putting the dial and hands on late this afternoon or evening if everything continues to run. Any thoughts? DAVE

 

[kirxklox]

You are flexing the Mvmt to base someway by the extra weight of the Adj Tool.

 

[John Hubby]

Dave, the measurement after removing the beat adjusting tool shows the clock to not quite be in beat. What I would do is put on the dial and hands without making any changes to the suspension setting, then restart the clock and re-measure the overswing after it has settled in. If you are still out by 1/4 inch, I would then make a final adjustment. Remember to turn the adjusting tool toward the short overswing side to even them up.

In any event with the strong overswing you are seeing the clock should run just fine.

 

[Dave P]

Dave, the measurement after removing the beat adjusting tool shows the clock to not quite be in beat. What I would do is put on the dial and hands without making any changes to the suspension setting, then restart the clock and re-measure the overswing after it has settled in. If you are still out by 1/4 inch, I would then make a final adjustment. Remember to turn the adjusting tool toward the short overswing side to even them up.

In any event with the strong overswing you are seeing the clock should run just fine.

I've put the dial and the hands on the clock, I've removed the adjusting tool and the clock has been running for an hour and twenty minutes since my last adjustment. I have over swing of 1 inch and 18/32 on one side the other side is 1 inch and 16/32. 2/32 of an inch difference. I'm going to say my measurement is correct +or - 2/32. My hands shake just a bit. I'll remeasure in the morning and if there is a change I will post that. Would you take the pendulum off to put the suspension spring guard on?

If this holds I guess the next step is to get fast slow speed down for the time. Dave P.

 

[John Hubby]

Dave, you should remove the pendulum when installing the suspension guard. Doing that will avoid possible kinking of the suspension spring. However, I would wait until you have the clock timed before installing, since there is always the possibility you may have to change the suspension spring for a stronger or weaker one depending on how far out you are from correct timing.

Looks to me you are just about done, let's see how the timing comes out.

 

[Dave P]

OH FRUSTRATION. Clock stopped after five hours. Will do some checking get back later today.

 

[kirxklox]

You probably have a bent tooth on the first or second wheel.

 

[lifeisgud71]

Hello Dave,

There is a "ton" of good information posted.
I would also check the hands to ensure they are not touching.
I had a minute hand just barely touching at the shaft. The hour hand was not on far enough.

Also make sure the intermediate shaft friction washers are installed correctly to place tension on the cannon pinion and not the front plate!
This is used on Kundo I believe, not sure about Shatz.

I did this about 2 months ago and the clock drove me crazy over a week.
The tension washer was "bent" towards the plate and not the cannon pinion.

Good Luck, I sure enjoy the challenge also.

GB

 

[Dave P]

Hello Dave,

There is a "ton" of good information posted.
I would also check the hands to ensure they are not touching.
I had a minute hand just barely touching at the shaft. The hour hand was not on far enough.

Also make sure the intermediate shaft friction washers are installed correctly to place tension on the cannon pinion and not the front plate!
This is used on Kundo I believe, not sure about Shatz.

I did this about 2 months ago and the clock drove me crazy over a week.
The tension washer was "bent" towards the plate and not the cannon pinion.

Good Luck, I sure enjoy the challenge also.

GB

OK I do not have any intermediate shaft friction washers. I took my dial and the hands off and checking the clock every half hour. So far after 2.5 hours my over swing is 1 inch 18/32 and 1 inch 16/32. The hour hand appears to be a friction fit over the hour cannon and the minute hand appears to be a friction fit also, then a small brass nut to hold verything in place. Dave P.

 

[Dave P]

I'm taking this one step at a time. This morning the clock was running fine. My markers on the plate are indicating my over swing is staying constant. I put the dial on and made sure the pins, that go through the posts to secure it were not touching any wheels, arbors or anything else. Later this after noon I will put the hour hand on and watch. Am I correct, my hour hand is a friction fit over the cannon? My minute hand is a friction fit over a smaller brass nubbin on the arbor and then the brass threaded nut. I am not aware of any washers in this assembly. Thanks DAVE P.

 

[Dave P]

Just came in from doing stuff and the clock is stopped dead. Last I checked a little over 2 hours ago every thing was fine over swing was hitting the markers. I lifted the dome and I can say with certainty that the pins are not touching anything. I started it up again with the dial on, if it stops again I'll try it it with it off. Definitely open for some suggestions. DAVE P>

 

[Dave P]

FLASH Update. I went over every piece with a fine tooth comb and could not find anything that was not correct. With the clock fully assembled I noticed that the wheels and gears on the out side of the plate did not look perfectly parallel to the plate. There is a strap that holds a gear on a very short arbor almost like it is just a point on each side, it has a bigger wheel that engages with the gear on the minute cannon and just forward of that is a smaller gear that engages the hour cannon.

The minute cannon fits over the steel arbor protruding through the plate, and then the hour cannon fits over this arbor or cannon, and engages the small gear as mentioned above. I noticed that the hour cannon wheel could be pushed down on a side and bind with the gears on this arbor with the larger wheel and gear. So I have taken the hour cannon off the clock and has been running for more than 24 hours now. I'm going to let it run for several days and then try very carefully to put the hour cannon and hands on and see if I can keep it running.

Any thoughts on this? Dave P.

 

[kirxklox]

This clock usually has a hand tension washer behind the Minute Cannon Wheel.

 

[Dave P]

The clock usually has a hand tension washer behind the Minute Cannon Wheel.

Sam what is a hand tension washer?

Clock has been running since Tuesday. Placed the hour hand on it late Thursday and it continues to run. Put the minute hand on and it is stopped in 20 minutes. Take the minute hand off and it runs fine. Put a convex brass washer between the hour hand and the minute hand and the clock stops in 20-30 minutes. Take it off and it runs. Under magnification I can not find any thing at all that is binding. I can easily move the minute hand with the slightest of pressure. All the gears and wheels on the out side of the plate are free and clear and move properly with the minute hand on and off. I can find nothing on the underside of the minute hand that is catching the hour hand. Some help Please. DAVE

 

[kirxklox]

Do you have the 10th edition?

 

[Dave P]

Do you have the 10th edition?

Yes I do; and when I look on page 221 part #49-46 I sure can't tell what the heck it is. So again I ask my question what is a hand tension washer, is it a flat brass washer, is it con vexed. I don't have any parts left over from when I disassembled the clock so I'm going to have make one, but I need to have an idea of size shape, thickness etc. Do you have a picture of one? I'd like to see how it fits on or over the minute cannon. DAVE

 

[kirxklox]

It is normally a Wavy or Concave washer that fits over the Minute Arbor, but does not go to the Plate made from real thin spring steel. Allows some amount of pressure to the Minute Arbor that makes a Friction Clutch that allows the Hands to be set for time. Then the Minute Pipe, the Hour/Minute wheel, and the Hour Pipe is installed.

 

[shutterbug]

Dave - If you get the number 17723 from Timesavers, one of them will be right. However, that's not going to solve your immediate problem. If the clock won't run without the tension spring, adding it make it worse. You have a major power issue and will have to find it. That spring can be added without disassembling the movement, but my instinct is that you'll have to. (After thinking about this, I'm editing to confirm that sometimes they are on the minute arbor, which necessitates disassembly)
How about putting the hands on it, and removing the pallets? How does it act?

 

[Kevin W.]

Dave hang in there, most people find these clocks frustrating to work on.
Give yourself a pat on the back for the efforts you have made so far.
Sounds like you are getting lots of experience on this one.

 

[Dave P]

Dave -

How about putting the hands on it, and removing the pallets? How does it act?

That was a good idea. Two things I noticed if I tightened the hand nut snugly against the minute hand the clock would not run and the hand was noticeably harder to turn, if I just put the minute hand on and really did not tighten the hand screw the minute hand would touch the hour hand and stop. So I put the anchor back in and just placed the minute hand on the arbor, it was still loose and would drop to the 6:00 position and I put the hand nut on just tight enough to press on the minute hand made sure there was space between the hands and wound the clock 4 clicks and its been running for 6 hours now. I just put a couple of full turns on it now that I know it is working.

Shut; that was a good idea to take the anchor off. Looking back on this I believe I've been tightening the hand nut too tight, with having the anchor off I could instantly see that everything was not spinning as freely when I snugged up the nut on the minute. I think I'll let it run for a day or so, then put the dial on and see if I can keep her working.

Now about this hand tension washer, where exactly does it go? And type slowly please I'm still learning. Thanks everyone for your help. DAVE P

 

[kirxklox]

Dave: Since no one else has answered, I will try.

Usually there is a small flat spacer washer and then a tension washer placed on the center shaft. If you check the center Arbor you will find a small shoulder right in front of the front plate. Then you install the Minute Canon Pinion. This gives the Friction clutch that you need to be able to set the time.

 

[shutterbug]

If the clock is running and the hands are not "floppy" you may have enough tension on it to run. I'd just run it as it is (after getting the dial on, etc) and see how it's acting. You might be "done"

 

[Dave P]

I'm really frustrated, it'll run for 3 or 4 days then only for a couple of hours then several days again. It has to be something with the hands because it will run fine with out them, put them on and the clock will stop before the week is out. Dave P

 

[shutterbug]

Double check to be sure the minute hand is not touching the hour hand or the hour pipe. That will stop it.

 

[Dave P]

OK the clock has been running for 10 days now, but I did not have the hands on. I put the minute hand on the minute barrel, any place past the 12, and the weight of the hand advances the clock motions to the 6. I did not put the hour hand on. Tried this several times same results. Your thoughts please. Dave

 

[harold bain]

Dave, that is likely normal if you haven't tightened the nut that holds the hand in place. If it still does that with the nut tightened, then you are missing the washer mentioned earlier in this thread.