My Christmas Present

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by ScotSun, Apr 9, 2018.

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  1. ScotSun

    ScotSun Registered User

    Nov 28, 2017
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    My wonderful wife gave me this Nagoya Shoji clock for Christmas...

    20180407_134743.jpg 20180407_135610.jpg

    I am only now getting a chance to look at it. On the wall, it would run for only a couple minutes before stopping no matter how much I tried to get the beat correct so I decided to take it out for a closer look.

    20180407_141115.jpg 20180407_141156.jpg

    The movement appears to be unsigned. It seems fairly clean, the strike works well. I am still new at this and am still having trouble getting it to run for more than a few minutes. It eventually just slows to a stop. Besides setting the beat, I have also tried adjusting the distance of the escapement from the wheel since there was marks on it like it had been previously adjusted. I think I now have it slightly too far away in this pic but this shot shows the position it eventually comes to when it stops...

    20180409_195748.jpg

    Everything else looks good but I wanted to get some opinions on the next step. My only other current thought is that the mainspring does not have enough power and should be replaced...

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks!
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Are you sure you have it in beat. It actually looks to be in pretty good shape overall. Can you get it running and do a YouTube video with a link here so we can hear it run? I find that usually a power problem with these movements is not the mainspring.
     
  3. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    The mainspring is rarely the problem but they do need to be cleaned up and lubed every so often.
    It could be a shadow or reflection but it looks like you have severe wear at the back escape-wheel pivot.
    The anchor position looks about right.
    Good luck, Willie X
     
  4. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    I don't believe the mainspring should be a suspect unless it is broken. When a proper running clock finally quits from not being wound, the spring is very weak. Yours fully wound likely have much more power than this.

    Move the verge closer to the escape wheel a little at a time until the escape wheel won't release, then ease it away just enough where it will. If the verge is shaped properly, the drops should be close to even at this point, which is ideal. Do you know what the drops are, and how to tell when they are even?
     
  5. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Un-oiled springs will have a lack of power. If they don't slip off, metal to metal contact,the spring must release must have no friction. Or the power will not release. Basic clock 101 The least amount of friction possible.
     
  6. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I also see about 4 adjecent escape-wheel teeth that seem to be pushed back a bit at the tips. These are all in the southeastern quadrant of the escape-wheel in the last photo. Willie X
     
  7. wow

    wow Registered User
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    You have good eyes, Willie. I see them too. That’s probably the main problem.
     
  8. ScotSun

    ScotSun Registered User

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    do you mean these...

    upload_2018-4-10_8-19-55.png

    ...in what I would think is the southwestern quadrant?

    If so, how could that be repaired? Do I try to bend them back? Or will this require a new wheel? How would this have occurred? Could it have been dropped during servicing maybe? Does not look like normal wear...

    "It could be a shadow or reflection but it looks like you have severe wear at the back escape-wheel pivot." --I will try to get a better pic of the back escape-wheel pivot. I assume that this would mean re-bushing for which I unfortunately do not have the tools or experience. A quick look online showed some of those tools being $1000 or more. A bit out of my budget.

    "Can you get it running and do a YouTube video with a link here so we can hear it run? " --I will also try to get this but it may take a day or two...

    This newbie thanks you all VERY much.
     
  9. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Those teeth ends can be straightened with flat-jawed pliers. Carefully! All should be alike.
    The wheel has turned, evidently. It is now the southwestern quadrant.
     
  10. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    If the verge pivot hole is worn that much, there is probably quite a bit of wear elsewhere in the movement too. I suspect that you haven't tried a two train movement yet. Now may be the time to jump in :)
     
  11. ScotSun

    ScotSun Registered User

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    what is a two-train movement?
     
  12. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    A two train movement is one with a going train and a strike train. A time and strike clock. A little more challenging to re-assemble due to the more complicated strike train, which includes stop pins on wheels, levers, a hammer etc. Before you take a strikuing clock apart make sure that you understand how the strike works. Take many pictures to make correct re-assembly easier.

    Uhralt
     
  13. ScotSun

    ScotSun Registered User

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    ...thank you...no sure what shutterbug was referring to then since this clock does indeed have two separate trains, strike and time. I have worked on two different seth thomas clocks and a little carriage clock with both as well as another that has three, time/strike and a westminster chime... still learning though... I thought he may be saying there was a way to get around re-bushing it, if wear is the issue.
     
  14. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I think he was trying to say that you probably will have to do more than one bushing in the clock. When there is wear up high in the movement there is likely more wear at the lower stages too.

    Uhralt
     
  15. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Yep got my directions wrong ... Southwest quadrant would be correct.
    A straight-on close-up shot of the back escapewheel pivot will allow a sure diagnosis.
    Willie X
     
  16. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    #16 Randy Beckett, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    "I assume that this would mean re-bushing for which I unfortunately do not have the tools or experience. A quick look online showed some of those tools being $1000 or more. A bit out of my budget."

    Scott, The basic tools to do common repair tasks does not require that much of an investment to get started. You might look at this recent thread on the subject.

    Tool Recommendations

    Also check out the "How to do" articles sticky at the top of the main screen. Lots of good info in there, including how to bush using hand tools.

    "How To Do It" Articles!
     
  17. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #17 RJSoftware, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
    First let the power of both mainsprings down with letdown tool. I made mine with small section of a shovel handle with hole drilled in center and slot so I could stick key in. Like a big handle for a key. After release click spring I wind a small turn which kicks out the click, then I let the handle slowly slip to release mainspring.

    When that is done grab a mainspring wheel and twist back and forth, watch the pivot tips. Each pivot that rocks back and forth 1/3rd of pivot diameter or more needs bushing work. Do both trains.

    On the escape wheel teeth when straightening with pliers use the straight side of tooth, dont worry about other side. Make straight side straight and dont worry about angle. Nice and pointy like thorns. No sharks teeth.

    Do not file ew teeth. A lathe is used to trim ew teeth in equal amounts, but this is rarely needed. So never file ew teeth.

    You can stone/file the ruts out of palette tips but go sparingly and maintain original angles
     
  18. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Yeah, I thought from your former posts that you had limited experience and didn't really want to get into the movement. But it appears to me that the biggest issue is going to be bushings. The escape wheel needs a bit of work, but I doubt that it's the cause of the clock stopping.
     
  19. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    The most minimal investment for bushing work arround $20. A set of broaches and some bushing wire and your in buisness. ebay.
     
  20. ScotSun

    ScotSun Registered User

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    Thank you all...

    Here is a pic of the back of the movement with the escape wheel pivot circled. From what I saw in the "how to" on bushing work, I would think that this is what is required here...

    upload_2018-4-13_16-41-26.png

    ...am I correct in thinking that someone did this previously? Is that what the ridge extending partway around the pivot hole is? It looks like maybe a previous busing has been eaten through at the bottom...I assume that if that is a previous bushing, that you would want to push that out before putting in a new one?

    ...and is there a maximum size that a whole can get before it is unrepairable? If I try to even that thing out it will come VERY close to the edge of the plate...

    upload_2018-4-13_16-46-53.png

    Thanks!
     
  21. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    That outer circle is not an old bushing. And yes, it will probably require a Bergeon style bushing. They are a bit larger O.D. than KWM style bushings.

    As Bugs already stated, there is probably other areas that will need attention when the clock is taken apart for service.

    This isn't a great clock to learn on. I would suggest you seek out a reputable repair person to overhaul your movement.

    Willie X
     

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