Musical Junghans Wall Clocks - A pictorial guide

[J. A. Olson]

My guide focuses on the later (postwar?) Junghans wall clocks with Schubert's Ave Maria and Himno Guadalupano. I will also include one Westminster to show the apparant postwar styling between all of these clocks.

These musical clocks with 'Ave Maria' and Himno Guadalupano were most popular in Germany and Mexico. It is somewhat interesting to note these are practically unheard of in the USA.

Some of these clocks struck on a 4 note chord, while others struck on a 6 note (two twinned) chord instead.

The 'Ave Maria' chime clocks used 6 notes on the chime side, two being twinned, while the Himno Guadalupano chime clocks used a set of six notes.

I do not think these clocks were made past the 1970's but I do not know for sure. If anyone else has reference to these types of clocks in particular, feel free to post.

 

[J. A. Olson]

Here are three videos of each type of clock.

Westminster
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX1XB23Terg"]YouTube - ML 111696521[/ame]

Schubert's 'Ave Maria'
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx6b6I3z98s"]YouTube - Reloj de Pared - Marca Junghans Alemán[/ame]

Himno Guadalupano
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIpiRF33yHc"]YouTube - MVI 2796[/ame]

 

[soaringjoy]

Hi,

thanks for posting those Junghansens.

Picture 1 shows a case style you see "now and then" in
Germany, but not very often.

Picture 3+4 shows a case, which at least I haven't seen yet.

Pictures 5+6, 7+8, and 9 show clocks, which could be as early as
mid 1930s and as late as 1950s.
These are typical of the pre WW II case styles, which they produced
again after the war.

To get a better grip on dating, there would be a lot of other details
to be checked.

As to Mexico, oh yes, the Mexicans were very fond of German clocks
up to around the 1960s. It was "respectable" to have one and it is,
in fact, again today too.
Junghans and Mauthe clocks I have seen there by the dozens (!)
Some of the case styles were very different from regular German
types and I can't say for sure, if they were originals or Mexican made.

Jurgen

 

[J. A. Olson]

Looking at the Art Deco style faces on these clocks with Edwardian cases, I would've thought they were post WW2.
I do not think Junghans used this type of chime block before the war, as well.
Prior to the war, they used the HAC style chime block.

Once again, I am surprised these clocks are so popular in Mexico, yet they're mostly unheard of over here. I have seen some later Mauthe clocks with Schubert's Ave Maria or Himno Guadalupano as well.

 

[soaringjoy]

Yes, of course, that may well be, no doubts.
I can't get the real "feeling" just by the pics.

But they had funny marketing policies back then.
Lately I had a Junghans, I would have sworn it
was post WW II. W 278a (?)

Anyway, the movement was dated 1939.

Jurgen

 

[J. A. Olson]

I have yet to see a musical Junghans wall clock over here. It is too bad we don't have much reference to the later post WW2 Junghans clocks.

 

[soaringjoy]

Yes, I see.
Well, after WW II, the folks in Germany did have other things
to do with their money, than to buy clocks.
The people here had worries about finding their families,
building new homes, furnishing them, get themselves a motorbike
- mind you, cars came much later for common folks -, etc., etc.
All this took "normal" folks a good 20 years untill they achieved some
prosperity, counting from 1945 on.
These things are often not thought about, on the American side,
because the development was a fully different one.
Being raised and educated in the States, I know that pretty well.
So the domestic marketing of clocks in Germany might have well been
very different than on the export market.
As such, especially the styles were sometimes different. The UK market
clocks ares good examples of this, although mostly pre war.
That always is a (minor) problem, when looking at clocks that
were made, for instance for France, Belgium, the Netehrlands,
at least. Not even speaking of the clocks that went to Spain or
Latin America.
As I do remember, the big mantle clocks were very in fashion
in the 1950s and 1960s, followed up by these cheap rope-hanger
types of wallclocks.
The larger, regulator types were not much desired at that time,
it seems, as they were expensive.
After the period, mechanical clocks as such were overlived by
the electric ones - starting eventually the slide and collapse of
the industry.
Regarding Junghans, it is said, that after the takeover by Hong Kong
holding, they simply dumped papers and all out of the factory windows,
right into the trash containers(!)
So guess, where the museums got the stuff they had from?
Who cared?
Sorry, but I just wanted to try and explain these cicumstances.

Jurgen

 

[J. A. Olson]

I appreciate your reply, but while I'm up for a friendly debate, I'd like to point out a few things I don't quite get.

Well, after WW II, the folks in Germany did have other things
to do with their money, than to buy clocks.

When I meant post WW2, I didn't mean the clocks were made right after the war. My idea would be more like 1950's to the 1960's, as to when these were made.

As I do remember, the big mantle clocks were very in fashion
in the 1950s and 1960s, followed up by these cheap rope-hanger
types of wallclocks. The larger, regulator types were not much desired at that time,
it seems, as they were expensive.

I have seen many of the large mantel clocks for sale over the years. Seen a few 'rope clocks' as well. I don't see how the larger mantle clocks would have been more affordable than the 'regulators', though.

So the domestic marketing of clocks in Germany might have well been
very different than on the export market.

While I'm aware many of the clocks had been built for export, as seen with the Guadalupano chime clock, I would be sure some of them were sold in Germany as well. Mainly the Westminsters, and a few with Schubert's Ave Maria. Some with Schubert's Ave Maria were exported as well.

Regarding Junghans, it is said, that after the takeover by Hong Kong
holding, they simply dumped papers and all out of the factory windows,
right into the trash containers(!)

Urgos did a similar thing when they were first bought out around 1990, sadly.

I'm not denying the Junghans clocks in this thread were possibly made prewar, I'm simply trying to give a few reasons why I think they are post war products.

Here is another thread about one of these clocks.
Click Here

 

[soaringjoy]

Oh no, please don't see it that way.
It's not a matter of debate or argue with a "win or lose" effect.
I'm just trying to explain, why, in some cases it is difficult for
us over here to find a way through a thick fog in an unknown landscape.

And the way I see it, it's a kind of international communication and
understanding for each other.

Of course I will try to answer your questions, best I can.

Quote:
When I meant post WW2, I didn't mean the clocks were made right after the war. My idea would be more like 1950's to the 1960's, as to when these were made.

When I left Germany in 1959, my parents were the only ones on the block
with a TV. The nearest telephone was at the post office and in the bathroom, water in a tank was heated by coals - every saturday. The kitchen stove needed coals too and was no refrigerator.
All these things then changed gradually in the sixties. Fully normal for
the "average" family.
Mantel clocks were (well sometimes) affordable and that's why they
rapidly came into fashion.
The Germans usually placed them on top of the vitrine type closets,
every one had in the living room.
In most parts of Europe, a closet ist a big wooden furniture box and built-in wall closets, as popular in the U.S., are, even now, practically unknown.
The mantel clocks were also called "Schrankuhren" (closet clocks), especially after the floating balances were employed after 1956.
As for wallclocks, well first of all, they were more expensive.
Then, where should they be hung?
The average living room wasn't very large in those days.
One wall was occupied by the "Schrank", the closet.
One wall had a couch (with the wellknown painting of "the elk" over it),
the third had the windows, and the last one had the door with an armchair or highboard. No wall spaces left then for a bigger clock. The rooms were often cramped enough.

Quote:
I have seen many of the large mantel clocks for sale over the years. Seen a few 'rope clocks' as well. I don't see how the larger mantle clocks would have been more affordable than the 'regulators', though.

The mantel clocks often were of the cheapest kind. They were given away as first prizes in lotteries at the county fair, for instance, or were sold in
some 5 & 10 cent store. If you bought your clock at the jewelers and it was a Junghans with chimes, boy, were you rich!
The rope style clocks started getting into style, just because they were
"newer" and more fashionable. "Gelsenkirchener Barock" we called it.
I don't think there is any logic there.

Quote:
While I'm aware many of the clocks had been built for export, as seen with the Guadalupano chime clock, I would be sure some of them were sold in Germany as well. Mainly the Westminsters, and a few with Schubert's Ave Maria. Some with Schubert's Ave Maria were exported as well.

Yes, surely the bigger wallclocks were also sold in Germany, but probably
not in those numbers you my be thinking about.
The wallclocks of that period (50s, 60s, 70s) I have stumble over, were
mostly the smaller box clock types with a simple striking movement, like
a Junghans W278, or similar. Westminster chimes come up, say, ten to one on those.
When I think back of times around the end of the sixties, I can't even
remember seeing a larger wallclock in any private home.
Oh yes, they hung in hotels, restaurants and bars (pubs) or in some fancy stores.
But they just weren't very common in domestic use... and then suddenly,
the era of mechanical clocks was over, like with a bang, and so what,
who cared?

Or, to put it down this way:

An American friend visited me in the 1980s.
He was surprized! Know what he said?
"Why, Jurgen, I thought every second car in Germany is a Mercedes!"
I answered: "Well I ain't never seen no cowboys in NYC!"

Yeah, well.

Jurgen

 

[J. A. Olson]

Oh no, please don't see it that way.
It's not a matter of debate or argue with a "win or lose" effect.

I see what you mean now. I didn't mean to make it seem like a 'win vs. lose' debate, which I am not fond of as well.

In most parts of Europe, a closet ist a big wooden furniture box and built-in wall closets, as popular in the U.S., are, even now, practically unknown.
The mantel clocks were also called "Schrankuhren" (closet clocks), especially after the floating balances were employed after 1956.

I see that the mantle clocks (the larger ones) had become more popular at the time you mention in Germany than what I thought. I know they are popular in other areas of continental Europe. I've seen them for sale mostly in Italy and Poland as well. Smaller Westminsters seem to be almost universal throughout Europe.

Yes, surely the bigger wallclocks were also sold in Germany, but probably
not in those numbers you my be thinking about.

Perhaps not, although it is interesting to know they were used in hotels, restaurants, etc.
I would've thought places like that would use different clocks, like a longcase or a dial clock.

The wallclocks of that period (50s, 60s, 70s) I have stumble over, were
mostly the smaller box clock types with a simple striking movement, like
a Junghans W278, or similar.

I have seen many of the smaller wall clocks with side hammer bim-bam strike.
They aren't as deep, and usually shorter than the Westminster chimers. Some used upside down hammers as well.

Thank you for the replies.

 

[soaringjoy]

Quote:
Perhaps not, although it is interesting to know they were used in hotels, restaurants, etc.
I would've thought places like that would use different clocks, like a longcase or a dial clock.

Ah, two very interesting topics (your fault).

Longcases or precision pendulum clocks:

Of course these clocks mostly already were precious antiques for some people and you
wouldn't hang them, where anyone could tamper with them.
I believe, that many of these Viennas landed on dumps, because they
were "oldfashioned" or complicated, or damaged and wrecked.
On the other hand, they never were clocks of the common people and
I suppose, well educated and well situated people did just keep them
in their homes.
I know of two very old, very expensive, longcases that hang in shops
nearby;
in the back room (VIP area) of a gold smithy and behind the counter of an
old pharmacy.
Yuppis, who want to show off, often have Erwin Sattler clocks or such.

The dial clocks, well I can't remember them in the 50s/60s.
Maybe I was too young to visit places like offices and authorities,
but these of course, were under the first to be built up again and
everything had to be "modern".
I would think the old stuff had been replaced by eletric signals clocks.

Jurgen

 

[J. A. Olson]

The longcases I've seen over here aren't hung, they're usually in the lobby where most people would see it. The 'Viennas' are, but the one I saw may have been a newer one, still weight driven. Some of the 'dial clocks' I've seen are really inbuilt into the walls of the main lobby or reception area.

Back to Junghans now.

 

[J. A. Olson]

And now here is a Junghans doing Ave Maria De Lourdes. Same time period as the others posted already, unless someone can prove otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWz4zeCW8I

 

[jemazur74]

I know this is an older thread. After almost 10 years of searching, begging, bartering and haggling I finally found a Junghans Himno Guadalupano for sale in Mexico and it arrived via DHL today in perfect working condition. Occasionally I found one for sale but it was an Urgos or Ontario that did not sound the same as the Junghans. From speaking to the seller they are definitely for sale in Central America but difficult to arrange shipping

 

[bruce linde]

I know this is an older thread. After almost 10 years of searching, begging, bartering and haggling I finally found a Junghans Himno Guadalupano for sale in Mexico and it arrived via DHL today in perfect working condition. Occasionally I found one for sale but it was an Urgos or Ontario that did not sound the same as the Junghans. From speaking to the seller they are definitely for sale in Central America but difficult to arrange shipping

congrats... but there was a non-related .pdf attached to your post. can you please post some photos of your clock?

 

[J. A. Olson]

Congratulations on your 'new' clock! It's been a while since I wrote this thread & it'd benefit from some updates - photos of your clock are welcome. I agree the Junghans clocks give the best sound quality out of all companies making these musical clocks for the Latin American trade. There may be a date code on the movement which would give a year of manufacture, however the majority of these clocks were built during the 1950's-1960's and were a good deal for Junghans, which was just crawling back from postwar deconstruction.