Music man activates while the bird is out

justinabshire

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I just put this clock together and am not really sure why the music man plays at the same time as the bird is out. I am not really sure how to adjust this.

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shutterbug

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The strike (cuckoo) side interacts with the music box with wires. One wire should hold the fan so it can't turn until the strike ends, at which time it will release it to start the music. Study that and let us know what you see.
 

justinabshire

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The strike (cuckoo) side interacts with the music box with wires. One wire should hold the fan so it can't turn until the strike ends, at which time it will release it to start the music. Study that and let us know what you see.
I know exactly what your talking about but this movement doesn’t have that wire on it when the bird arm moves out it hits the wire that I circled in red when it does that it triggers the music man. So I am not sure what I should do in order to make an adjustment.

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Dick Feldman

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Justin,
You may be missing some parts.
Your pictures do not show the entire operation.
Have you checked the link I suggested?
Dick
 

steamer471

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I have one similar to that. The bird wire trips the music box wire all the way forward while cuckooing, while pushed forward a piece of the wire at the governor stops it just enough till the bird goes in then the music plays. Push forward all the way on the music box wire till it stops the music. Make sure the flag pole pushes the wire all the way to this position.
 

justinabshire

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I have one similar to that. The bird wire trips the music box wire all the way forward while cuckooing, while pushed forward a piece of the wire at the governor stops it just enough till the bird goes in then the music plays. Push forward all the way on the music box wire till it stops the music. Make sure the flag pole pushes the wire all the way to this position.
Would it be possible that you could take a picture of yours not really sure what is what you are talking about
 

steamer471

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Yeah it's hard to explain. My pictures are no better than yours. That wire you have circled is the music box trip wire. The lever the bird is attached to is the flag pole. When the cuckoo is activated the flagpole comes forward and trips the music box wire. On mine the music box wire slides sideways then forward with this motion. While pushed forward a part of the music wire stops the fan on the music box. Check yours, With your hand pull tension on the music box chain and take a screw driver and push the music wire and watch what happens , the music should start , while its turning push the music box wire forward some more and see if it stops the music. If it does then you'll have to adjust the music box wire so when the cuckoo comes out the flag pole is pushing hard enough on that wire to stop the music while the bird calls. When the bird is finished the pole pulls back the music box should start playing. You'll have to bend the music box wire not the flag pole to get this set up. Doesn't take much bending and be gentle. Trial and error will be your guide. In your picture the wire looks awful close to the bird, it should not touch the bird. All are a little different and yours is a little different than mine. Good luck!
 

justinabshire

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Yeah it's hard to explain. My pictures are no better than yours. That wire you have circled is the music box trip wire. The lever the bird is attached to is the flag pole. When the cuckoo is activated the flagpole comes forward and trips the music box wire. On mine the music box wire slides sideways then forward with this motion. While pushed forward a part of the music wire stops the fan on the music box. Check yours, With your hand pull tension on the music box chain and take a screw driver and push the music wire and watch what happens , the music should start , while its turning push the music box wire forward some more and see if it stops the music. If it does then you'll have to adjust the music box wire so when the cuckoo comes out the flag pole is pushing hard enough on that wire to stop the music while the bird calls. When the bird is finished the pole pulls back the music box should start playing. You'll have to bend the music box wire not the flag pole to get this set up. Doesn't take much bending and be gentle. Trial and error will be your guide. In your picture the wire looks awful close to the bird, it should not touch the bird. All are a little different and yours is a little different than mine. Good luck!
Thanks it helps big time now is this supposed to play on the 30 and hour

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steamer471

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Usually just the hour, if it plays two different tunes then every half hour. Best way to check is get it running and watch the weights. They should drop at pretty much the same rate. If it's playing every half hour and the music box weight drops faster than the other two then there's something amiss.
 

justinabshire

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Usually just the hour, if it plays two different tunes then every half hour. Best way to check is get it running and watch the weights. They should drop at pretty much the same rate. If it's playing every half hour and the music box weight drops faster than the other two then there's something amiss.
Yeah it is playing on both not sure what it might be
 

shutterbug

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So the music weight is dropping twice as fast as the time weight? With the bird activating the music box, I don't see any way to eliminate the half hour strike. It's quite possible that the music box has been replaced. Any evidence of that?
 

POWERSTROKE

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I repaired one like this last month. There is a thread on here somewhere about it. You can’t make it just play on the hour. Because if the bird pops out, the music box is impossible not to trip. You need to wind the music 2x a day.
 

POWERSTROKE

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Usually just the hour, if it plays two different tunes then every half hour. Best way to check is get it running and watch the weights. They should drop at pretty much the same rate. If it's playing every half hour and the music box weight drops faster than the other two then there's something amiss.
You’re right. That’s the way it should work. But not this goofball setup.
 

justinabshire

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So the music weight is dropping twice as fast as the time weight? With the bird activating the music box, I don't see any way to eliminate the half hour strike. It's quite possible that the music box has been replaced. Any evidence of that?
There is no evidence of replacement this clock when I got it looked like a wd40 buffet. Yes the weight is dropping fast and I also notice when I pull the bird weight up it seems to get hung up but the tik is working great.
 

JeffG

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I have one of these single-wire music boxed cuckoos ,too and Steamer's description is spot on. 'Stroke is also correct that has to play music each time the bird is activated.
In order to really get a sense of weight movement you'll have to let it run through a full day and see where the weights end up. The music box weight drops a consistent amount each hour, but the strike weight drops a lot more at 10-11-12 o'clock than it does at 1-2-3 o'clock.
Not sure if it'll help, but here are a couple of pictures of mine out of the clock-
s-l1600-2.jpg s-l1600.jpg
 

steamer471

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I have studied mine but I still believe It's supposed to play only on the hour I am just missing something. Why design it to be wound twice a day? You could shorten the music time or change the gearing. I'll bet it's something simple that I just can't see. Mine is an older one but was in great shape. The verge was not rutted and it needed no bushings. Also the music box was tight.
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justinabshire

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I have studied mine but I still believe It's supposed to play only on the hour I am just missing something. Why design it to be wound twice a day? You could shorten the music time or change the gearing. I'll bet it's something simple that I just can't see. Mine is an older one but was in great shape. The verge was not rutted and it needed no bushings. Also the music box was tight.
View attachment 651788 View attachment 651786
I agree i Need to look at mine some more and see if there is anything that might be missing
 

steamer471

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I wish you the best. If you figure it out let us know. One thing I remember I had to turn the chain sprocket on the shaft of the music box because it was out of time. But I can't see how that would have effected it.
 

shutterbug

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If you are correct, and the music box was designed for activating only once per hour, you'll have to look for something happening in the movement itself that affects the music box. But since we now have evidence of three clocks that all function the same, I'm inclined to think it's just a poorly designed clock.
 

JimmyOz

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You can change the setup to work just the hour by altering the star or removing the pin (whichever it has) that activates the 1/2 hour. This alters the clock and I would not recommend this for normal practise, however these type of clocks will never be worth much. This will make it run for at least the whole day, however you lose the 1/2 hour cuckoo as well.
 

JeffG

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One tell-tale that we haven’t mentioned is that if there are two songs on the drum, as is usual with half hour chimers, there should be two holes in the face of the gear that drives the governor so that the pin can catch and end each song. If there’s only one song on the drum, but two lift cams on the center arbor, I’d say you’ve got an oddball clock or a replaced music box.
 

justinabshire

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One tell-tale that we haven’t mentioned is that if there are two songs on the drum, as is usual with half hour chimers, there should be two holes in the face of the gear that drives the governor so that the pin can catch and end each song. If there’s only one song on the drum, but two lift cams on the center arbor, I’d say you’ve got an oddball clock or a replaced music box.
I noticed this wire just like yours and not really sure if this will be the fix.

image.jpg image.jpg
 

POWERSTROKE

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My clock was much older than this. The piece that trips the music box is much different.
 

JeffG

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I noticed this wire just like yours and not really sure if this will be the fix.
Yes!
The small pin that seems to be featured in your photos is what should stop the fly from spinning while the bird cuckoos. When the bird retracts, that pin should move aside to allow the fly to spin until the other part is pulled into place by the gear at the end of the drum.
 

POWERSTROKE

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Are we in agreement that if you have one where the bird activated the music lever, the 1/2 hour can’t be turned off? I see no possible way and it’s just an oddball clock. It’s the original music box too.
 

JeffG

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Are we in agreement that if you have one where the bird activated the music lever, the 1/2 hour can’t be turned off? I see no possible way and it’s just an oddball clock. It’s the original music box too.
I am not aware of any way for a bird-activated music box to be hourly, unless the lift cam has only one lobe to trip the whole strike mechanism hourly.
 

shutterbug

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That is one possibility. Disable the 1/2 hour strike completely. Not reversible though.
 
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