Movement Trademark

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by developerdw7, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Hi - new to the site.
    Trying to identify maker and age of movement in a German Open-Well Grandfather clock. Back of face has 1914 on it. (22.8.14. K.) Tried looking in http://www.mikrolisk.de/, but after looking through 29 pages in the B section still didn't find the logo on the back of my movement.
    Attached are two photos.
    SN# 125388 is the serial number on the bottom of the back of the movement.

    Any help appreciated. Thanks!
    [​IMG]

    Movement Logo and SN 125588.jpeg Date.jpg
     
  2. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

    Jan 2, 2016
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    Hi all!

    This is the logo of the German company Bernhard Paschen, this company did not produce movements.

    bildmarke_paschen.jpg

    The movement was made by Mathias Bauerle, to compare several pics with close serial numbers.

    119_972.jpg 125_313.jpg 125_903.jpg 133_672.jpg

    Developerdw7, please add photos of the case, movement and gong.

    BR, Tatyana
     
  3. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Thank you. This is helpful. I was confused by the trademark on the back of the movement, thinking it was the movement maker.
    Here are photos of the movement (as well as I could take it while still in the clock), case and gong.
    Any thoughts on the date - "22.8.14 K."?
    And where did you find the trademark in the Mikrolisk reference book? I looked and didn't find it by Bernhard Padschen.
    Thank you!

    20190314_133945.jpeg 20190314_134023.jpeg 20190314_141737.jpeg Movement photo.jpg
     
  4. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

    Jan 2, 2016
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    Here is a movement Peerless (Mathias Bauerle) with a close serial number on the case is the date - 1911.
    Your movement ~ 1909/10., 22.8.1914 - date of repair (prevention) movement.

    139_896.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg

    455560a2-af19-4454-a58a-67bfb6709115.png

    BR, Tatyana
     
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  5. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    If you had put in BP, Bernhard Paschen would have been the very first entry. And if you just put B in, then you would have to scroll through down to page 3 of the Bs. It's all there.

    JTD

    PS I see Tatyana beat me to the send button!
     
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  6. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Thank you, Tatyana and JTD. I appreciate the help. Since the above posts, I've had the movement dismantled, dis-assembled, and cleaned, reassembled and put back in the clock. Prior to the cleaning, it kept perfect time after a little adjustment of the nut on the pendulum rod. After the cleaning, with the nut turned to the longest position possible, thus lowering the bob, it gains six minutes a day. (I didn't clean it; a local clock repair person did). I've thought of four options:
    Decrease the weight in the clock weight to put less pull on the timing mechanism - still works fine, but still gaining six minutes a day.
    Add weight to the back of the pendulum bob - I added about 1.5 ounces in the form of three steel washers taped on the back - tightened the nut on the pendulum rod one turn and now it might gain a second an hour.
    So - problem solved, but not solved. Why did it start gaining minutes when it didn't prior to the cleaning? And weights taped to the back of the pendulum (and could be put on the inside for "looks") doesn't seem be a good final solution.
    Other two options: replace the suspension spring with one that is .375" longer - that SHOULD lengthen the pendulum enough, but does it create other problems, OR replace the pendulum rod with one that is an inch longer, and lower the bob(this might work, but the bob would then leave a gap between the bottom of the wood rod and whatever is holding the threaded rod to the wood pendulum rod (unsightly), and I don't know a) how to dissemble the pendulum bob, nor what I'll find as to how the wood part is fastened to the threaded rod.

    Thoughts? Thank you in advance.
     
  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Before you did any alterations, you should have taken it back to the person who did the work. He should be the one to put it right for you. As you say, weights taped to the back of the pendulum are not a good solution.

    JTD
     
  8. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Thanks, JTD. Unfortunately, the clock repair person is getting out of the business (second retirement), and unable to help any further. He is the one who suggested the clock weight "fix". Other than that, they're three ideas I read about. The 1.5 ounces taped on the back of the bob comes off easily (purposefully afixed that way). What I can't understand is how can a clock mechanism that keeps great time be taken apart, cleaned sonically, reassembled and then gains six minutes a day. It doesn't make sense, and the clock repair person didn't have a suggestion either. The mechanism functions properly except for the speeding up. I am unaware of any kind of adjustment for any gear/cog in the mechanism that would alter the time like that.
    Thoughts?
     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Oct 19, 2005
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    To slow it down, you loosen the nut. You went the wrong way ;) But I think you just misstated it.
    A longer suspension spring might work. A thinner one might work too. Make very sure that you are not skipping a tooth now and again. That will play havoc with your escape wheel teeth.
     
  10. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Hi Shutterbug,
    You are right. However, when I got the clock back after cleaning, "with the nut turned [down] to the longest position possible, thus lowering the bob, it gained six minutes a day."
    The solution that worked so far - "I added about 1.5 ounces in the form of three steel washers taped on the back - tightened the nut[upward] on the pendulum rod one turn [revolution] and now it might gain a second an hour."
    I can pick up a longer suspension spring - 135mm is the longest I've found in the Type A version, and that will give me .375" longer than I have now.
    Help me understand: "Make very sure that you are not skipping a tooth now and again. That will play havoc with your escape wheel teeth."
    I'll have to find a diagram that points out the escape wheel. How would it be skipping a tooth now and again? And would that give a consistent 6 minute increase per day? I apologize in advance for the simple questions, but this is a learning experience and each new "glitch" seems to bring on another chapter of learning. I appreciate your and others' help.
     
  11. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    The escape wheel is the one where the tick-tock sound comes from. If it sometimes misses a tooth, the clock will gain time. It doesn't sound like that's happening with yours, but it's sure worth looking at to be sure.
    Note that adding weight to the pendulum is not a good practice, but if you have to do it, lower is better. Too high and added weight will actually speed the clock up! It's a physics thing ;)
     
  12. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Hi Shutterbug,
    Thanks for the input. The escape wheel is in great shape - all teeth are present and in good condition. I watched the cycle, and there were no "misses."
    I'm not for adding something foreign to a clock either, but at present the weight seems the easiest option. I may find a source for the longer suspension spring and try that. If that can decrease the speeding up from 6 minutes to ? minutes per hour, added weight may not be necessary, or at least a lesser amount.
    What stymies me is I can't figure out why the clock would start gaining six minutes after cleaning. Are there adjustments within the mechanism itself? I can't find any, but again, I'm a novice.
    Thanks in advance
     
  13. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2008
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    Is it possible that there are two very similar but not identical wheels in the clock that you mixed up during reassembly of the clock?

    Uhralt
     
  14. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Hi Uhralt,
    Good question. A local clock repair person took the movement apart, cleaned it and reassembled it. He is not doing clock repair any more (he retired a second time, this time from clock repair). I may need to pull the movement and give it a good lookover. A general question would be: is the escape wheel generally similar to other wheels in other clock movements? Or is it very unique in size, function, teeth, axle composition, etc.? I'll have to look. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  15. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    The escape wheel is the one that is stopped and released by the verge, or anchor. It looks different from all other wheels because the teeth are not straight radial but tilted to one side. If there is a mix-up, the escape wheel is not the one that was mixed up.

    Uhralt
     
  16. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Thanks, Uhralt. Makes sense. And I haven't had time to look at it - this weekend - so I can be more familiar with the mechanism. So, perhaps another solution in time.
     
  17. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

    Feb 21, 2008
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    You may have the pallets (anchor) to high on the escapment wheel thus they are just catching the tips, is the swing a bit less on the pendulum than it was before?
     
  18. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

    Feb 21, 2008
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    Just had another thought, maybe you screwed the threaded steel adjustment rod up into the timber rod, try to see if you can lower the the adjustment rod by unscrewing it a bit.
     
  19. developerdw7

    developerdw7 Registered User

    Mar 15, 2019
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    Hi JimmyOz,
    Thanks for your two thoughts.
    I didn't reassemble the clock; that as done by the retiring clock repairperson. In looking at the diagram below, which I pulled off of the internet to show the pallets and anchor, where would the adjustment be that you refer to? I can't say whether the swing of the pendulum is any wider or narrower than before the clock was cleaned.
    As to the pendulum rod, it was not removed to my knowledge, and trying to unscrew it would mean the end of the wood and beginning of the metal threaded rod would show above the pendulum bob. I don't think that was a problem. (and the pendulum wasn't switched with another).
    Thanks again for your thoughts. Look forward to your reply.

    escapement diagram.jpg
     
  20. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

    Feb 21, 2008
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    The diagram is of another type of escapement, however I looked a bit closer at your photos, maybe the guy that fixed your clock put a new suspension spring in it as it looks new? Maybe get a pack of different size suspension springs off eBay, they don't cost much, use the longest one 1st and see what happens, let's hope it ends up slow and you can adjust the nut on the pendulum on a few more turns.
     

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