Movement relationship to case?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by ChrisCam, Jan 10, 2020.

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  1. ChrisCam

    ChrisCam Registered User
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    I have interest in a HAC clock but wonder if the case is contemporary. Did HAC make all cases or were there movements put inside any suitable case maker? On a broader front what is the relationship between movement maker and case maker. Can a case be attributed to a movement maker?

    Chris
     
  2. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    Can't help with answer your first query but as to the others my answers are no and yes, it varied and yes and no.
     
  3. ChrisCam

    ChrisCam Registered User
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    The reason I ask this is my understanding is different guilds (crafts if you like) did various component parts such as movement, dial, case. So when is a HAC clock not a HAC clock? If someone puts the HAC movement in another frame is it fair to describe the clock as HAC or? As clocks parts were often made by various different manufacturers / crafts is it the movement that should or ordinarily does define the clock? Yes I am sure the clock should be described accurately but an awful lot of clocks have been altered with either the case or movement replaced and the seller may be tempted not to introduce a weak point into his description. Why we are on this subject if a clock is described as 'made' what does this mean. I could put together a case to a movement and claim I 'made ' it. It's down to interpretation made to me implies manufacturing from raw materials not assembling:???:?? But your opinions guys..
     
  4. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    It's impossible to discern some marriages as this is just what many English casemaking concerns did during the 1930's. German movements and other components were brought in and cased up in domestically-produced English cases. The clocks typically bore the name of their retailer with any movement manufacturer's insignia being relegated to the movement. As far as the HAC clocks go, it was a mix between completed clocks imported from Germany and English cases being fit up with HAC movements and components.

    It is most common for collectors to simply identify the clock by whoever made the movement. HAC and Junghans are a more complex story because Junghans was still making HAC-branded movements long after the 1930 buyout.
     
  5. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Yes.

    The movement is the heart of a clock and its purpose has little, if any, decorative appeal (with, arguably, the exception for crystal regulators, etc.). Its sole purpose is functional.

    The parts of the clock that are most visible to the eye - the dial, hands, weights, and case - are more decorative than functional and these tend to be the parts that were, for lack of a better term, outsourced to other firms. As a result, many people tend to focus on the name on the dial (retailer) or the looks of the aforementioned parts ("that case looks like my Becker" or "I have an HAC with the same dial, so therefore it is an HAC"). The reality is closer to the fact that two or three movement makers contracted with the same dial or case maker to produce their clocks.

    Regards.
     
  6. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    #6 new2clocks, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
    Assuming this was done after the purchase of the finished product by the retailer (say, in 1923), I believe it is most accurate to describe it as a marriage.

    On the other hand, to me there is no difference between a movement maker contracting with the case making firm down the road to put their movement in a case and then selling the finished product as an HAC, and HAC selling loose movements to the trade and having the purchaser of the movement encase in their cases. Why? Because the movement maker intended their movements to be cased in the manners just described.

    Regards.
     
  7. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    The movement in a clock is what makes it a clock not the case though of course the case can be the major factor in one's desire to acquire any clock.

    As to what sellers may tell you about a clock well that's up to what you believe based on your own knowledge and any advice you have sought but if you told me you'd made a clock you'd still be looking for a buyer.
     
  8. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    Lots of manufacturers of various products use parts or assemblies from sometimes many sources. In the realm of clocks, there is another layer when retailers add their name to the mix (usually prominently).

    I don't quite understand the point of the question, because there are as many answers as there are examples. Some examples are obvious, some less so. It seems sort of like asking, what color blue is the sky?

    Tom
     
  9. ChrisCam

    ChrisCam Registered User
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    Thanks Jim
    It is the point of advertising a clock which has a known movement as made by some particular other 3rd party without any provenance / proof or expert opinion that I am investigating. A lot of clocks are bought today on line. Can we believe / rely on the descriptions? Any one might believe a clock was made by someone but there has to be substance. Provenance must be provided.
    Chris
     
  10. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    I think you answered your own question as best as any of us can. I also think this applies to any 3rd party sale of any product. Buyer Beware is a simple and good rule to live by.

    Tom
     

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