Movement identification. Could you help?

Dr. Jon

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I rarely disagree with Enrico but this is one of them. I agree with his date 1890/5 to possibly 1920 but disagree that it by Louis Audemars.

1) The Audemars firm was gone by 1885
2) It looks like a standard LeCoultre ebauche (unfinished movement)
3) The guilloche dial, which is wonderful, is atypical of Louis Audemars
4) The workmanship which is very good is a bit below Louis Audemars standards

Audemar Freres is a possibility but is a bit better than their usual work. There were a lot of operators who could have put this together for Esmeralda so it is not possible to be certain but Louis Audemars is very unlikely, in my view.
 

eri231

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yes Dr.Jon
you are right i wrong to write Louis in fact is a Audemars Piguet if you look the book Watches ninth edition Cooksey Shugart & Tom Engle pag. 453 there is the same
and also in the site of Bogoff a similar shape attributed to Audemars Piguet
regards enrico
 

Dr. Jon

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enrico, I was about to try in a nice way to state that were wrong again, but I checked the Bogoff site and you are correct they did use this base movement. I did not expect this this and I have learned from you. I still disagree in a small way.

I believe Audemars Piguet is a good candidate but but I am less certain that you.
1) This watch and the Bogoff watch are much different from other under dial signed Audemars Piguet (AP) watches. All that I have seen, including the Bogoff watch, have serial numbers on the movements and they are below 6000. This watch has no serial number.
2) This movement style was used by several other makers
3) The photos are not sharp enough to be sure, but it looks like the Bogoff watch, like all AP watches of this era I have seen, has a raised tooth escape wheel but this watch does not appear to i these photos. The workmanship looks to me to be below AP quality.

These are very detailed points and your identification may be correct. If is is by AP, it will be signed with a small stamp under the dial but it may be hard to find. The mark is small and on one example I have seen a a repeater part covered it.
 

eri231

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I agree with what you say. but considering that a private label may not have the same criteria for a product signed by the maison. perhaps for private label Audemars used a Ebauches (80% of the repeaters were built by Le Phare) to reduce the production costs.
regards enrico
 

jjea

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has a raised tooth escape wheel but this watch does not appear to i these photos[/QUOTE said:
Maybe this photo could help (??) PICT4840.jpg

It is very interesting to follow your arguments concerning this movement, I have learned a lot from the discussion. I got some of my watches from the scrapping man who calls me to save them but of course I cannot save all. I have the dream to make an exhibition of these watches and that’s the reason I want to score the basic information. I want to share with you another repeater that to my inexpert eye looks similar to the one I posted first. Are they similar or really different?


PICT3877.jpg
javier
 

Dr. Jon

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Photo one looks a bit more like a plain escape wheel but is not clear enough for me to be sure. I have not seen more than 8 private label AP's but all were finished better than this example.

Nardin was quite capable of finishing a repeater movement and to my eye this is a notch better and has the raised tooth escape wheel.
Raised tooth tip escape wheels were a specialist product, rarely made by the signer. They show the grade of the product. This Nardin started as a a LeCoultre rough movement. The bridges are in a shape used by Patek and also by C H Meylan. Meylan may have done this for Nardin. If it were not marked that is who I would have guessed was the maker.

Size matters. I have not seen a 16 (50-55) mm diameter AP watch. The did 12 size (~45-48mm) watches.
 

Audemars

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Louis Audemars Valette (sucessor company "Ls Audemars & Cie") ?
While we were in the V de J the week before last, a Swiss contact showed me a lot of corrspondence (which I didn't know existed) between him and various South American countries.
P
 

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