More Waltham Info

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Levi England, Dec 16, 2010.

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  1. Levi England

    Levi England Registered User

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Recently came upon a watch belonging to a friend that is considering having it restored; but I need to give her more information which I cant seem to locate.Very nice octagonal case w/ 10s with an 8/o movement labeled Waltham 17j Ruby. Into the abyss i went. Can someone please help? Thanks Levi
     
  2. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    A movement serial number (minimum) and a clear picture
    of the movement would help get the identification started.

    Then, the next question would be -- what needs restoration?
    Pictures of the case and dial are needed if those are the items
    needing restoration or replacement.
     
  3. Levi England

    Levi England Registered User

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Mt apologies, had it written down but neglected to post in my thread.
    The watch is in a triple case, no photo at this time, camera is in shop.Single sunk metal dial, this is what needs restored, betw. 70 -$ 100, according to Inter. Dial Company which is why she wants info. She needs to be sure watch is worth expense of restoration, or just of sentimental value.mvmnt. # 294165
    adj. temp. Ruby is written in very nice script. Tnks again
     
  4. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Levi,
    If you are having a problem with pictures etc. the serial number will give us information to help.

    I can tell you this, the RUBY grade was a 6s small movement and unlees it is in a GOLD case you would be talking about a nice dinner for two.:)
     
  5. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    As Jim stated, the smaller womens sizes don't garner much "interest" unless in a gold case. I happen to like them as my wife likes them, plus it helps me find excuses to look for watches, hee hee, she then wants them fixed up so she can wear them. That serial number must have come off of the case or is missing a number as it correlates to a model 1857, 18 size large Waltham movement.
     
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Aug 24, 2000
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    The Ruby grade is one of the Waltham Jewel Series watches. It is a special size that is very close the 6/0 size. 6/0 is 1" across the dial plate (5 sizes smaller than the 0 size). Many of these are cased in the larger Fitch's patent "Opera" case with a filligree ring in the back and an oversize dial.

    You can recognize the Opera watches easily because the seconds bit sits well above the numeral 6 in the middle of the dial.

    The Jewel Series were Diamond, Ruby and Sapphire. Later there was an Emerald grade with a higher jewel count but lower finish level.

    When the Diamond grade appears in an Opera case it is marked Diamond Maximus.

    With respect to dial refinishing, I would advise against it unless the dial is unreadable. A refinished dial is readily detected and lowers the value of the watch almost as much as a dirty scratched dial. Either learn to appreciate the life experience represented by the dial, or find a replacement dial. 41071.jpg 41070.jpg
     
  7. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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  8. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    And a "Sapphire"...

    DSCN8994.JPG DSCN8993.JPG
     
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  9. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    And a non-maximus "Diamond" for which it looks like i sadly forgot to photograph the movement. D'oh. Next time.

    Completing the set, "Ruby" is perhaps the commonest one. Mine is in storage, perhaps someone else can post pictures of theirs.

    DSCN9055.JPG
     
  10. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Aug 25, 2000
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    Here is a photo of four grades of the 1898 model, which wind at 3 and are common in wrist and pendant watches. The 1912 model was open-face, like Tom's Diamond Maximus above.
    JewelSeries.jpg

    I believe the Diamond and Diamond Maximus were really the same movement, but one has the Maximus name added. There were also the Emerald, as mentioned earlier, in which the finish varied depending on when it was finished and sold. Some of the earliest movements have the grade name in script rather than the lettering shown here. There were also some private-label versions of this model in different grades.
     
  11. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    topspin,
    Your pictures need some help on a filter or a disfusser to take away the glare so we can see the movements.?
     
  12. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I underbid on two different Opera watches in the last 2 months. I always keep
    an eye out for these little beautiful movemnets. They are some of my favorite.


    Rob
     
  13. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    So, I went back and photographed the non-maximus Diamond from my earlier post, and here it is.

    But the movement is perhaps not the most interesting part. The interesting part is what appears once the main back cover is open - it's stamped in big letters "WALTHAM JEWEL SERIES".

    DSCN9089.JPG DSCN9088.JPG
     
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  14. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Aug 25, 2000
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    That IS an interesting case. I have not seen one marked like this before for this size watch. Is that an English case?
     
  15. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    Not sure.
    Outside of the back cover is plain gf/gp.
    Inside of back cover is only marked 121082.
    Inside of inner cover is marked 121082 with the remains of what looks like a small amount of damaskeening, like arms radiating out from a central point or sun.
    No other markings to be seen.
    No obvious clues on the frayed, tatty "strap".
    Bought from a UK ebay seller in April as a non-runner, & subsequently fixed/serviced by my watchmaker.
     
  16. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    I'm struck by the similarity to this - which I just stumbled across whilst looking through some old photos for something else. This is on a 12s Howard (998754), for which Keystone Watchcase Co made the case.

    DSCN5952.JPG
     

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