More is better

Discussion in 'Wrist Watches' started by Marty Rougeaux, Feb 21, 2001.

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  1. There is an interesting chat going on in the post "who makes what." It's about overjeweling. (Is this a real word?) Anyway I thought I would bring it up on a new post so that it does not get buried with so much other information. 17,23,39,67 - 100? This may be overkill, but I want one. How many are around - 100jewels? I have a 67j Bucherer auto from the 50's (white gold case)keeps excellent time. Strong runner. You mean I don't need all those redundant jewels? Marty
     
  2. There is an interesting chat going on in the post "who makes what." It's about overjeweling. (Is this a real word?) Anyway I thought I would bring it up on a new post so that it does not get buried with so much other information. 17,23,39,67 - 100? This may be overkill, but I want one. How many are around - 100jewels? I have a 67j Bucherer auto from the 50's (white gold case)keeps excellent time. Strong runner. You mean I don't need all those redundant jewels? Marty
     
  3. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2000
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    I would like to see the jeweling pattern for a 67J watch. Where would they hide the last 30 or so? Tom
     
  4. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    It was not too long ago that 15 jewels was considered to be all that was needed since the center wheel moved so slowly, it didn't need a bearing. That's why you will see expensive, name-brand old watches with 15j.
    The American pocket watch industry drove the jewel race out of sight. I do see a lot of automatic watches that could sure use a few more jewels. Those self winding parts are some of the most heavy and busy parts on a watch.


    Here's a question for the watchmakers:
    Do cap jewels really do anything besides run up the cost of the watch? I've seen 15j watches sold as 17s because of cap jewels on the escape wheel, is this a better movement?
     
  5. Hey Tom, you said you would like to see the jeweling pattern for a 67j. Well, thanks to Larry Jones, who was kind enough to post that bit on "posting images," I may be able to photograph and eventually put it on the site. Is it possible that I am the only guy on nawcc, TZ, Ebay or any other watch site that has never posted a photo? Hell, now I may be able to trade or sell some of these Patek's and Vacheron's that I have boxed up in my garage. Best, Marty
     
  6. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

    Aug 27, 2000
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    Dave,

    The purposes of a cap jewel are: 1./ Oil retention. When used in conjunction with an olive hole jewel, (if properly cleaned and oiled), the oil will last about twice as long as oil will on an uncapped jewel. 2./ As a thrust bearing. The pivots on a capped arbor are always concave in shape at the shoulder rather than square, leaving the TIP of the pivot at the cap jewel as the thrust surface rather than the SQUARED shoulder on the flat plate jewel of an uncapped pivot. Friction reduction and positive alignment are the aims. Cap jewels are used on the pivots that work the hardest, and not necessarily the ones that take the greatest strain. The tiniest of the pivots travel at much faster rates of speed than the heavier ones. That is why cap jewels (when present) are always used towards the balance wheel end of the train. Upper centre wheel jewels are never capped as far as I am aware.

    I like cap jewels for another reason. It is MUCH easier to judge the condition of the lubricant on the pivots of a watch that are capped than it is on the pivots that aren't. You can actually SEE the retained oil under a properly lubricated cap jewel which you can't with a flat plate jewel. If the capped jewel oil has disappeared, the whole watch needs servicing.

    Regards,
    Doug S.

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by Doug Sinclair (edited 02-22-2001).]
     
  7. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    Doug: Thanks for the lesson. I thought that they must be somewhat helpful because the oil would stay around the pivot in a better manner. It is so cool to have you great guys as a resource, thanks again.
     
  8. I distinctly remember, (at age 60, I tkink I do) seeing a couple Waltham WW's which were marked 100 jewels on the dial? If I remember correctly, most of the 100 jewels were around the perimeter of the dial? Anyone else remember this watch?
     
  9. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    Steve/Charles:
    I've seen one of the Waltham 100s
    and the extra jewels are in the rotor, apparently to act as a bearing surface
    against the case back or something like that.
    It was an insult to the watch business. I was looking through my one and only issue of the Swiss Watch Journal magazine dated in the late 50's, and the issue of high jewel counts was just getting started about then. There
    is a Candino 41jewel with a big 41 on the dial. I've noticed that most of the true quality watches like Patek and Audemars
    don't even mention jewels.
    Dave
     
  10. Dave, I can't agree with you on this excessive jewel count being an insult to the watch industry. Remember, we have to consider the time and place. It was in vogue at the time. Remember the tail fins on cars, the 37 extra pounds of chrome? My favorite vintage watches are the ones that are unique. That's what makes them so appealing. How many of these 100 jewel babies are around? I want one. At the top of this post I mentioned that I have a 67j Bucherer. I never considered this watch a star in my collection, (although it is beautiful and a very strong running piece) but now I'm going to do some research on how many high jewel count watches are around. Marty
     
  11. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    Marty: Big fins and chrome are style features. Putting 83 useless jewels in a watch is an attempt to deceive the public
    into thinking that they were buying a better watch. If Dodge had put a fake hemi in the trunk and tried to make you think it was a real engine, would that not be an insult? I don't doubt the rarity and desire
    to have one, they are unusual.
     
  12. OK, Dave, I'll accept that, but how about this - "congratulations on the purchase of your new Patek, sir. Here is your receipt in the amount of $11,400. You can be assured that it will always keep accurate time." However, I forgot to mention that if you want really accurate time, you can have this tourbillon, for only an additional $23,000. This will give superior accurate time.
     
  13. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    Steve: Do you think that Audemars
    has an ETA in it? Ha Ha!! More likely a
    LeCoultre that some guy worked on for about 10 years. It's getting close to the price of a house. That watch tells you something about marketing:
    Sold new for $400K+ can't get $150K now.
     
  14. Dave Haynes

    Dave Haynes Registered User

    Sep 12, 2000
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    Steve: I think that the Audemars is absolutely one of the best. No doubt they made the movt. That Tourbillion Flat
    Egyptian theme watch they made years ago
    is about the most trick thing I've seen.

    I agree that the Royal Oaks look really cheesy, like a mid 70's Favre Leuba.

    I know a guy who won the lotto and bought a $650K motor home. Imagine pulling into the local KOA in that one!
     
  15. Casey Jones

    Casey Jones Guest

    I was just browsing Ebay and saw this 100 jewel Waltham Wrist watch for sale. 100 jewel Waltham WW Thought everyone might be interested. Casey.
     
  16. Casey, Thanks so much for that lead to the 100j. It will be interesting to see the action on it. What surprises me most about this ebay post is that the seller did not take advantage of his sales pitch-the 100j on dial. It is obscured by the hands. Oh well, refreshing to know that most of the auction stuff is still presented by individuals. Mary
     

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