Model 1872 Waltham grades

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by sandlapper, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. sandlapper

    sandlapper Registered User

    May 20, 2018
    89
    1
    8
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Fellows, I have asked about the different grades of M-72 and M-88 movements on this site before and have gotten great information and feedback from you guys. In talking with Jim Haney today in reference to these models, he stated that there seemed to be " grades within grades" and I know what he means as I have seen a great variation with the same grade, i.e. the Am'n grade, for instance. I haven't been fortunate to get my hands on any of the American grades in these models, but I assume they have the same variation, based on threads I have read here. Also, I have recently acquired two gilt M-72 16 jewel movements in the 600-800K S/N range that have completely diffrent style dials and winding wheels than the later M-72's, but are not even listed in the watch guide, as far I can tell. Anyone care to opine ? As always, Thanks, Sandlapper
     
  2. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 15, 2009
    3,039
    203
    63
    Chemist
    Kentucky
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Are your gilt '72s Park Road grade?

    If so, the first couple of runs used an "exposed click" unlike anything used on any other '72 model. IIRC, nearly all examples in the 600,000 range have the exposed click, while I have examples from 700,000 runs with and without-I just had that tray of movements out last night but it's been a LONG time since I've taken a close look at them or paid attention to the SN. That's a great and inexpensive way to get into '72 collecting as you have both the click variation and the also see them in both lever setting and "push" setting.
     
  3. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 18, 2002
    5,277
    125
    63
    Country Flag:
    There's a great article on the 1872 model grades written by Philip Guest in the October 1996 NAWCC Bulletin, if you haven't seen it I highly recommend checking it out.
     
  4. sandlapper

    sandlapper Registered User

    May 20, 2018
    89
    1
    8
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks for the information,fellows. Ben, neither one of my gilt Am'n grades are the type with the exposed click, although I am familiar with them.I told you incorrectly; the watch was in the 700K range, not 600K and both have the std. 72 lever, not the push setting.Fred, How can I go about finding the bulletin you refer to?Thanks guys. Sandlapper
     
  5. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Sep 21, 2002
    6,202
    763
    113
    Male
    Working the farm, Garden,horses, goats, chickens,
    Decatur, TN.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The NAWCC Library site is down or I would post a link to the article.

     
  6. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Silver Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    18,236
    1,416
    113
    Country Flag:
    This may be helpful, especially to less experienced readers; to quote from the (currently being updated) "Waltham Watches" Encyclopedia article:
     
  7. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 16, 2000
    672
    17
    18
    This thread made me get out my model 72 and re-read the article by Guest. I own # 2809097. The article states the 72s are 17 size. I don't think I ever knew that. It is cased in a box hinged 14K hunting case, by AW CO. # U9580. What does the letter U tell us?

    Jerry Freedman
     
  8. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 15, 2009
    3,039
    203
    63
    Chemist
    Kentucky
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The pillar plate is close to 17 size, but I seem to recall from the last time I measured one it's more like 16 1/2. It's larger than a "standard" 16 size watch, but primarily in thickness and at the pillar plate.

    "U" in the gray book usually means that it used "unadjusted" grade material. There was also "T" for adjusted to temperature, and "P" for positions. This was really quite an imprecise way to denote material grades, especially for '72s, where, for example, American grade material was noticeably different from Am'n or Am. grade material in several ways(even if all were "P" grade).
     
  9. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
    NAWCC Member Donor Sponsor

    Oct 25, 2018
    1,046
    1,264
    113
    Male
    Plumber
    Pittsburgh pa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    According to my caliper, the 72 that I have will fit into a normal early 16s case. Same as the early Elgin model 1-5, illinois model 1-3, and Hampden model 1 and 2. The difference (and problem with casing) is that even though they will fit in an early 16s case.... They have a male winding stem and a huge setting lever that swings out. At least mine does. So unless you want to massacre a case, it's a waiting game to find the perfect one. I have a dueber that has almost become a model 72 case a few times.... Lol. I just can't do it.

    Mine isn't rare or anything. It's a 15 jewel Gilt royal. I like early style 16s so I picked it up on impulse one day a while back. Now its just a show and tell piece.

    Just wanted to share the sizing info I've discovered trying to case one with no success.
     
  10. grtnev

    grtnev Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    558
    163
    43
    Male
    Retired = Consulting Engineer
    Minden, Nevada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Anyone have any idea when there will be access again to past Bulletin articles? Every time I try to access this article, I get a message "for members only, please login" even though I am already logged in. I seem to be able to access anything else, just not past bulletin articles. What's up?

    Thanks,

    Richard
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,776
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Check the discussion in Problems and Comments.
     
  12. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    #12 Dano4734, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
    :) Hope it’s fixed for you show us a picture of the watch when it’s done
     
  13. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Sep 21, 2002
    6,202
    763
    113
    Male
    Working the farm, Garden,horses, goats, chickens,
    Decatur, TN.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:

Share This Page