Missing Parts Help

chris_psmith

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
72
0
0
Bromsgrove, England
Country
Well couldn't resist a punt on some bits from e-bay and ended up with this lot.

Number of bits missing, but just starting with the going train I have already hit my first question that i hope someone can help me with. As you can see I have an escape wheel but no shaft and pinion / pallet arbor / pallets or crutch.

Starting from the center shaft it has a 60 tooth wheel, this meshes with an 8 tooth pinion with a 56 tooth on the other end. The escape wheel has 30 teeth, so how many teeth should be on the escape wheel pinion? The thing that is confusing me is the others i have worked on have a drive to the minute wheel on the face, this seems to be direct and i can't figure out how to make it work with the spreadsheet i normally use, with 6 teeth on the missing escape wheel i get a wacky answer.

I will post a picture with the train in place to see if i can make it clearer.

25.jpg

Looks like lots of writing scratched on to the back plate, can't wait to clean it to see what it is.

Regards
Chris
 

Mike Phelan

Registered User
Dec 17, 2003
10,140
79
48
West Yorkshire, England
Country
Region
Chris
Your 8-day long case should have a seconds pendulum and 8 leaves on the 'scape wheel.
The only 6-leaved ones were on lantern clocks and 30-hour LCs.

The minute wheel and cannon pinion are the same size - 30/36/40 teeth usually. The number is irrelevant.

The minute wheel has 6 leaves, so the hour wheel must have 72 teeth - you've got that, though.

HTH
 

chris_psmith

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
72
0
0
Bromsgrove, England
Country
Thanks Mike.
Just had a quick clean, covered in writing:
F.G.Webley May 12th 1880
F.G.Webley Nov 1st 1883
E.Webley April 1st 1896
J.Webley May 30th 1923
J.W. June 17th 1925

Not much room left! All adds to the interest.

Chris
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,968
1,997
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Thanks Mike.
Just had a quick clean, covered in writing:
F.G.Webley May 12th 1880
F.G.Webley Nov 1st 1883
E.Webley April 1st 1896
J.Webley May 30th 1923
J.W. June 17th 1925

Not much room left! All adds to the interest.

Chris
That's cool! Father to son to grandson? Or maybe a family business, with two sons? Interesting stuff :)
 

Mike Phelan

Registered User
Dec 17, 2003
10,140
79
48
West Yorkshire, England
Country
Region
Interesting, Chris - three generations of repairers, maybe (we never learn, do we?) ;) Wonder if the 1880 one was the first time it needed attantion, as the clock won't be any newer than 1860 at latest.
 

chris_psmith

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
72
0
0
Bromsgrove, England
Country
Next question, go on you knew this was coming, i can't find any pre-formed arbor's with 8 leave pinions on them, I have a 6 leave pinion formed on an arbor that is the sort of thing I was looking for to turn down to size. Any ideas where they sell them, i have tried a number of on-line shops.
Best I have found is a 13" 6.9mm od length of 8 leaf pinion wire that i would have to turn down to form the arbor, is that the best i can hope for?

Cris
 

Robert Gary

NAWCC Member
Feb 26, 2003
3,942
88
48
Southern California
Country
Region
Interesting as to the gaps between servicing:

3 years between the first and second servicings; then 13 years; followed by a gap of 27 years; then it was back in after only two years.

Looks like they had the same issue of when service was required as we often discuss on this board.

RobertG
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,423
980
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
Next question, go on you knew this was coming, i can't find any pre-formed arbor's with 8 leave pinions on them, I have a 6 leave pinion formed on an arbor that is the sort of thing I was looking for to turn down to size. Any ideas where they sell them, i have tried a number of on-line shops.
Best I have found is a 13" 6.9mm od length of 8 leaf pinion wire that i would have to turn down to form the arbor, is that the best i can hope for?

Cris
Chris, If we had any idea where you are located it might be easier to make suggestions in this regard, on line profiles are useful in that regard. :D

I have a drawer full of "rejects" in 7 and 8 leaf pinions that might fit the need, and the price would be right (free) but I am not likely to take a couple of hours to do an international shipment for the fun of it. Anybody in the Houston TX area can stop by and sort through, but I suspect you are far off?
 

Attachments

Mike Phelan

Registered User
Dec 17, 2003
10,140
79
48
West Yorkshire, England
Country
Region
Next question, go on you knew this was coming, i can't find any pre-formed arbor's with 8 leave pinions on them, I have a 6 leave pinion formed on an arbor that is the sort of thing I was looking for to turn down to size. Any ideas where they sell them, i have tried a number of on-line shops.
Best I have found is a 13" 6.9mm od length of 8 leaf pinion wire that i would have to turn down to form the arbor, is that the best i can hope for?

Cris
You are lucky, Chris! Not seen any pinion wire for years, and would have to make it from rod.
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,423
980
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
Chris,

Thanks for updating the profile, it always helps to know where someone is, before I run my mouth.

I would not recommend pinion wire as a solution, I have some fair amount of that too, I have had it for a very long time, and have only used it a couple of times and that has always been for motion works idler pinions. The tooth profle is generally wrong for our work on all the pinion wire I have.

If you don't find a solution closer to home I will see what can be done out of my rejects. But you will have to listen to my complaints about international shipments if I do sent it. :}

I am assuming you need an escape wheel pinion? And you have and use a lathe?
 

chris_psmith

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
72
0
0
Bromsgrove, England
Country
Thanks Jim, yes its the escape wheel pinion and have access to a lathe. I will see if i can track anything down local before putting you to any hassle, more than happy to cover all the shipping costs.

Regards
Chris
 

Mike Phelan

Registered User
Dec 17, 2003
10,140
79
48
West Yorkshire, England
Country
Region
Jim, bit far as i am in england, updated my profile, thanks for the offer though.

Mike, reckon i am best to get the pinion wire then?

Chris
Chris
I'm with Jim on that - as I've never seen pinion wire for years, it looks like you'll have to take the bull by the horns and make an arbor and pinion.
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,423
980
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
So, here is some pinion wire, just for purposes of discussion. I bought this many years ago, before I started cutting gears. I very quickly learned 2 things about pinion wire.
1. No matter what sizes you have, it will be WRONG size for your need
2. All the pinion wire I have ever seen has been involute pattern, not cycloidal or epicycloidal
It can be used of course, but it is not ideal for a clockmaker or clock repair person’s use. See points one and two above.
As I have commented previously I think I have used some 6 leaf pinion wire a couple of times in 40 years for the idler pinion in the motion works of either an American banjo or tallcase clock. Other than that, entirely wasted money spent on pinion wire.
Since then I have cut many hundreds, most likely thousands, of pinions, most of them as “one off”. Size does matter, and a few thousandths of an inch change in diameter of a pinion will be the difference between a sweet engagement or a sloppy poor running mechanism. Or a gear train that has to be re-depth and bushings to be moved/created/made offcenter/ and or beat on with a big hammer.:} Just IMO.
Pinion wire is a waste of time for me for my purposes. Others are welcome to think and do otherwise…..
 

Attachments

Forum statistics

Threads
167,168
Messages
1,456,691
Members
87,344
Latest member
Jeffbloz
Encyclopedia Pages
1,057
Total wiki contributions
2,914
Last edit
E. Howard & Co. by Clint Geller