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Discussion in 'Complicated Watches' started by dandan1978, Dec 7, 2019.
Please can someone recognize that movement
I'm afraid I can't identify the movement, but it's not only a repeater but a chronograph with a minute register, and the balance is free-sprung, so a good quality piece on that basis. Could possibly be by Nicole & Capt or Nicole Nielsen. If you can post pictures of the hallmarks in the case we can at least establish a date for it.
London, 1909/10, 18 carat gold, case maker Joseph Walton at 7 Upper Charles Street in Clerkenwell, this mark registered on 17th July 1903. The Walton company took over the business of Fred Thoms, probably the finest case maker of his day, and finally ceased trading during WW2.
Thanks Graham you are legend
If the case was made ca.1909/10 the 1892 inscription must be commemorative. Is this unusual? It certainly presents a caution to using inscriptions to date a watch.
Yes, good point. The London date letters for 1889/90 and 1909/10 are very similar, and since Walton was working at the earlier date, I believe I was wrong in attributing it to the later year.
In all likelihood, the movement is Swiss for the British market.
It is practically impossible to determine the manufacturer just from the layout of the back plate. The same caliber was often made with the back formed into different shapes. I am attaching one such example of LeCoultre’s repeater from their 1899 selection. All three models have the same caliber but also have different looks for different markets.
Continental & US markets......................British market................................................German market
Additionally to the market differences, the same caliber could look different when sold to different retailers. A minute repeater by Victorin Piguet with the same caliber had different bridges when sold to Patek Philippe rather than to Vacheron Constantin.
If you send us a photo of the movement under the dial I would hope we could identify it.
I think the raised barrel makes it more likely a Clemence watch than a LeCoultre ,but both are possible.
As Phil wrote, the under dial work is key.
Clemence had shops in London and Switzerland. They build the basic watch and cased it in England but had the repeating and probably the chronograph work done in Switzerland. Clemence made watches have shown up signed by others. This is the Clemence who took over Carley's business.
NIcole Neilson is another possibility Capt was long gone whne this watch was made.
Also presentations are often well after the watch was made. The sellers often used old stock for these.
Where do you get this information ? Is it online or a book ? Could you post a link please ?
No online link I'm afraid, but the book is 'British Watchcase Gold & Silver Marks 1670 to 1970' by Philip T. Priestley, ISBN 9781944018054, published by the NAWCC. It's the culmination of a lifetime's work by Philip, who sadly died before final publication, and it's the standard reference on this subject.
Thank you Graham.
I'm going to order a copy.