Mid-East Regional, York, Pa. Nov. 9, 10, 2019

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Jim Haney, Oct 18, 2019.

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  1. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    I hope to see as many of you there that can make it.I will have several tables and have extra copies of the Illinois CD, a fund raiser for Chapter 149.
    ______________________________________________________________________________



    National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors

    2019 Mid-Eastern Regional
    November 9-10-2019


    Please note that this Regional will be held in York Pennsylvania and not in Virginia this year!

    York Expo Center
    334 Carlisle Ave
    York, PA 17404



    Please mark your calendar and plan to attend the upcoming Mid-East Regional, November 9th and 10thin York, PA. This year we are returning to the York Expo Center, 334 Carlisle Ave, York, PA 17404. The show features over 300 tables of horological items, lectures, workshops, an exciting exhibit, and the opportunity to meet friends, both old and new. This year's show will be followed by the NAWCC board of directors meeting in Columbia so, in addition to our National representative, Rhett Lucke, several other directors and employees will be in attendance. This is an outstanding opportunity for members to meet our staff and leadership and to share your ideas and concerns with them.

    You may also want to include time to stop by NAWCC headquarters and the National Watch and Clock Museum while in the area. The Museum is open Tuesday thru Saturday from 10 to 5, and Sunday afternoon from 12 to 4pm. In addition, there will be a Tag Sale in the education building Sunday afternoon starting at 12:30. This sale will include many clocks, watches, books, tools, and other horological items. These are items that are no longer used by the education department and from several large donations to the association. Bring your truck, or empty your trunk, as there are lots of items they're priced to move.

    We hope to see you in York this November and we're sure you will enjoy your visit. You can get more details and download a pre-registration form at the NAWCC website. Visit NAWCC.org, click on upcoming events and look for the Mid-East Regional.

    Pre-registration ends October 28th so make plans now and join us in York for a fantastic show.

    You can also download the printable
    Registration form by clicking HERE.

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  2. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    What a great opportunity to attend a good regional and the NAWCC headquarters, museum and library and research center in one trip! Wish I could be there! :(
     
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  3. mldenison

    mldenison Registered User
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    I'll be there on the 9th as a looker. Luckily, I live in York. Hopefully, someone has an Ansonia Swinger replica movement for sale. And a bow for the Diana statue. One can hope.
     
  4. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Mary and I will be there with a couple tables as well. Stop by (no assignments yet).
     
  5. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I'll be there. I usually hang out at Don Barrett's table when I'm not on the prowl. I hope some folks can make it to the museum. The special exhibit on Civil War timepieces runs until January 31, 2020. I'll be at the museum on Friday, November 8 to do some photography for the electronic enhancements project.
     
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  6. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Thank you to all the volunteers!

    Had a great time and met or reconnected with people I had not seen in 20 years or so.

    We had a table with the intention to SELL (we are down sizing ) and a number of things left the table for less than I thought they were worth. But it was clear from the way it opened that it was going to be a buyer's show (my wife (head sales person and VP Business Operations) ensured I did not take advantage of.

    There was a large crowd for setup and many cars in the parking lot; but when the Mart opened there was continuous but very light new entries.

    I had a nice 102 lathe that I "think" (hope) I sold for what I purchased it for but did a lot of work and added some things. As a friend commented, it could well be things are not worth what they used to be. Lotta truth in that. Just closed my eyes and let Mary deal with it. Even walked away.

    Sold four pocket watches which surprised me (Mary again) but it could just be part of the same thing as the lathe.

    Those sold for what I considered reasonable but likely reflected pricing in the room.

    Did prove to myself that a show buyer does not care about how well a watch is adjusted. It looks like someone has to own the watch to want it to perform as intended. Had the 950 and the 992B at prices that reflected the item cost and my service charge. Not even profit. Lots of admirers but not much else.

    Not whining or railing, just reporting the reality.

    Like I said, other than 2 cursory turns around the room, I did not actively look (mainly for hang tags and inexpensive stick oilers).

    Hope others had as much fun as Mary and I.
     
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  7. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    Thank you for your report. I'm curious about the "hangtags" you look for? The price correction (adjustment?) has been happening for some time. An upside is that regular grade stuff is now cheap enough to buy and I can sell decent watches reasonably to non-collectors. This in turn may spark a new interest in the hobby. At least I hope so.-Cort
     
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  8. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Hang tags = tags to put on repairs so they match an invoice. I need all the help I can get!
     
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  9. CentreKeystone

    CentreKeystone Registered User
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    I attended the show midday Saturday. I found it very enjoyable looking and learning. There was some rather optimistic pricing but on the whole prices appear to have been reasonable (to a buyer!). I was looking for trolley watches but did not find any new ones to add to my collection. I did get a nice IL salesman case for future use. My "prize" was an IL Santa Fe Special. It was in nice shape but not operable. The seller offered to fix it at a very reasonable price but I really wanted it for display only as the company has an interesting story to tell.

    case back.jpg face.jpg movement.jpg
     
  10. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I saw a few items I would like to have bought, but I thought the prices were way above market.
     
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  11. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    I was disappointed with the watch crowd. Very few buyers and the ones I talked with had very little knowledge about the watches. I sold some 992B converted to WW and some regular Hamilton wrist but only a few pockets.

    The younger crowd seems to want to wear these to show off, "mine is bigger than yours"

    I believe, based on the last several years show experience, that they will go the way of the dinosaur and buffalo. Everyone will buy from eBay or auction houses from their computers.:rolleyes:
     
  12. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Sadly Jim, I agree. From conversations Mary and I had, the NAWCC will eventually be the Museum and Library, both of which are well worth saving.

    And this is not a management issue. In terms of stocks, we are seeing a secular sea change. The world has changed and the NAWCC has no control and few options.

    I am just glad I am not trying to shift shelf clocks for the price I paid for them.

    We all saw this coming and the NAWCC, unlike AWI, tried innovations to expand interest and membership. Last I checked the financials, based on paid subscriptions (only way they can count actual members), AWI was down to around 900. So being at 50% of our membership high is not bad. But we are all so OLD!

    It just seems beyond salvage.

    My 35-year-old daughter is active in buying vintage wrist watches, but they are for bragging rights and jewelry. She understands the story of the role of watches in technological history, but has no interest. Not even as an engineer.

    One of the best things that happened at the show was a young guy came to see me. A few years ago he spent a couple of days in the shop to see if he could restart his Dad's business. He told me he realized he needed machining skills so he stopped everything to take a community college program full time. Today he is in the one off department of a machine building company and he loves it. He wanted to thank me for my role in where he is now (NOT clockmaking).

    Jim, I am buying what pleases me and the Devil take the hindmost. Investment? HAH! When I am done it will all be found money and that is all. Just hope Jones and Horan continues for another 25 years.
     
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  13. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    This doesn't surprise me, sadly.

    I doubt most collectors keep more than a few watches running, because winding more than a couple watches every morning takes a significant chunk of time. All the watches I wear or carry have been serviced (to my admittedly low standard), and mostly will run within seconds a day, but all but a handful spend most of their time run down, wound only for the day or so when I wear them.

    I have tried to keep my railroad grade pocket watches going, but once you get over half a dozen, winding every morning is a chore, and then comes the morning when I don't have time to wind more than the one I'm carrying, and the older ones don't last 48 hours on a single winding....

    So, I think for most collectors, a watch carefully adjusted to the kind of performance it was designed to be capable of is a nice idea, but not something that they'll pay much more for. Certainly not enough to cover the time of a skilled professional beyond the usual COA.
     
  14. Rick Hufnagel

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    As only being a member for a year... And only making it to one small regional event... It would be great to hear about the good points of this event in York. I was pretty upset I couldn't come.

    How were the presentations?
    Was there a good variety of watches for sale... Anyone see some good rare pieces? Exhibits and workshops? What's the scoop?

    I heard sellers complaining the whole.time at the last event I was able to go to. Truth is they didn't have but a few interesting pieces in the whole building, and the way they were priced, was definitely "optimistic". I went there intending to leave broke. I spent $10. Pretty bad when I legitimately couldn't find a way to spend money there. I did meet some great.people, and had a good day out with the Mrs. Maybe because I went on Saturday because I couldn't make it Friday.

    After the experience I described above, i was hoping to hear some excitement about the regional in York that I missed , maybe something to look forward to next year?
     
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  15. Tom McIntyre

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    Fred Hansen had some nice pieces in the $5,000 to $15,000 range.

    I ended up buying an interesting bezel and crystal matcher that was turned by a crank and cut both at the same time. I am planning to give it to friend who might use it.
     
  16. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    I've seen what he spends his money on, and can confirm that if he can't find a way to spend, it's bad! \;)
     
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  17. Clint Geller

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    Especially but not only from a new collector’s perspective, there were plenty of interesting watches to look at and learn from, even if they weren’t necessarily priced to sell. Just talking Walthams and early Howards, there was a gorgeous 23 jewel American Grade 16 Size Model 99 bridge model, a 15 jewel Nashua movement and a rare 18 jewel American Grade Model 1868 in an original gold case with an interesting provenance. There were a couple of rare American Grade nickel 16KW movements as well. In the Howard line I saw the prettiest, mintyest gold cased nickel Series III I might ever have seen, a nice L Size KW with Coles escapement in an original 18K case, a very decent originally gold cased Series I and some other nice items. And that was just the stuff that was sitting out for sale. In collectors’ pockets, if you knew the right people, were a Waltham 16 Size crystal plate, a 20 Size 20 jewel American Grade vibrator, an A P Walsh pocket chronometer, and an unique US Marion perpetual calendar watch, among other pieces.

    I drove 220 miles each way and bought not a single thing, but I was glad I went anyway! I did get to sign a few copies of my book for folks who had just bought copies from the NAWCC.
     
  18. Rick Hufnagel

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    Thanks for the response, that's the kind of thing that would make the 220 mile drive from the burg worth it, for sure! Plus, it's always good to meet people with similar interests. Put faces to names. I'm still bummed I was out of town for your presentation at CMU.

    I couldn't imagine a Mart room with 300 tables of horological items! It would be difficult to go through all of that in a day.
     
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  19. John Cote

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    Great to have seen you in York Clint and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I had a 10 hour drive both ways and it was worth every mile and minute. I saw friends, mentors and mentees. I saw some of the same amazing goods that Clint described. I know they aren't for everyone but Regionals are one of my many favorite things about the NAWCC and York is still one of the best.
     
  20. Diana Kelly

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    I attended with the Jones & Horan group and we had a great time! There were many good watches to see as one walked around (as mentioned by Clint and John, above), and as always, there is a lot of new information to be learned if you keep your ears open and ask the right people. We got to meet two clients that we had never met in person before, which is always a true pleasure, as well as a few of the NAWCC staff that we deal with regularly but had never met face to face. I do wish I'd realized that the NAWCC sales table was only going to be there on Saturday, as I didn't make it over there that day and when I went looking on Sunday, they weren't there. But we also felt encouraged by the small number of younger interested people, including a 25-year-old who is learning about collecting and dealing in watches and parts and will continue his father's business once his father retires.

    We always enjoy seeing our old (and newer!) friends and talking watches. Where else can you see so many NAWCC members in one place? We hope the shows continue for a long, long time!
     
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  21. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    You always have a fantastic selection of watches for sale at these NAWCC events.


    Rob
     
  22. Diana Kelly

    Diana Kelly Registered User
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    Thank you! This one was close to New Hampshire, so we were able to bring a van load with tools, parts, and even a watchmaker's bench full of tools! Fred is looking to move his workstation out of our large walk-in vault and into a room currently used as storage, but that has some windows and therefore some natural light. I think every time a large item was bought and carried away from our tables, Fred silently cheered inside!
     
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  23. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I only sell watches and parts at my local NAWCC marts and on Ebay never at any of the Big
    NAWCC events. I like to walk around and look at stuff and not be tied down
    to a table(my wife doesn't mind minding the table though). Even if I don't find anything to buy(which is rare) I still
    enjoy looking at watches, clocks, and all the other miscellaneous stuff
    people have on their tables(and talk to like minded people). So almost every
    event I go to I have a good time because I'm there. No sales stress on me.


    Rob
     
  24. Tim Orr

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    Good evening, all!

    I too enjoyed the Mid-East Regional very much!

    Here are some photos from the Welch exhibit at that show, called "A Night at the Opera." (Click on the first photo to enlarge, then use arrow keys to move around in the stack.)

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/TjzZCvTKmsWLRNBY7

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
  25. George Frick

    George Frick Registered User
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    I tend to agree with Rick. The two Regionals i have attended have been mostly clocks.
    Not a lot of pocket watches, those that were there were mostly low grade. I too left both times with most of my money unspent.
    As i am 5 years into this addiction i know few people. Most of my purchased are internet auctions. I just won a nice 389 Father Time for under $200. I doubt that deal could have been found at any mart or regional. I am not knocking marts or regionals. I will probably attend 1 or 2 next year. I suppose my point is as a tool to encourage and support those new to this addiction they are lacking.
     
  26. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
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    I thought this was a great show.

    I do love how people continue to dog the market and complain that they can't buy at the prices they THINK they should be able to buy at.

    For those of us who actually ponied up and bought items for our collections I can say it was a GREAT show!
     
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  27. George Frick

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    Bryan, i wasn't "dogging" the market. I was lamenting the lack of quality watches at the shows i attended. I have done much better on the 'net.
    I am not a trader, i will pay more than book if it is something i want.
    As for the Regionals, yes, i did feel like an outsider. Perhaps someone smarter than me can figure out a way to make new or prospective new members feel welcome.
    As it stands, breaking into the good old boys club is next to impossible.
     
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  28. Clint Geller

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    #28 Clint Geller, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    Instead of disrespecting everyone whom you disagree with, you might just have said, "I was able to buy watches at the show at prices I felt comfortable with, so I thought it was a great show." That would have been more collegial.
     
  29. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
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    To be clear my comments were not directed towards any specific individual, I was merely addressing the prevailing attitude of this thread.

    Discussions of valuation aren't even supposed to be part of this forum yet there's been an increasing number of (inappropriate) posts critical of sellers' asks & buyers' purchases.

    We all represent the NAWCC and its best interests - this includes supporting and furthering the market.

    There is absolutely no room for denigrating other's valuations of items, and especially not in public view!!!
     
  30. George Frick

    George Frick Registered User
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    This is a losing battle. It is apparently ok to say i am dogging the market. But if i reference a recent happy purchase i am bad.
     
  31. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
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    That mostly happens in private.

    One day I will make it to another national or regional. I do miss the fun of seeing watches, even ones I can't afford. It is about getting to see and learn as well as buying and selling. People sharing experience and knowledge is the goal in my opinion.
     
  32. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    Although I was not able to attend York, I do go to at least a decent number of regionals. I was only able to make two this year(Lexington and Wilmington) but have managed as many as 5 in a year in the past. I know that's small compared to many here, but in close to 10 years of NAWCC membership I'd guess my total number attended(including nationals) to be over 30. Again, that's a drop in the bucket compared to many, but I'd also say it's safe to form a good opinion.

    I've never walked away from a show(except perhaps the last Dayton national) sorry that I attended. Sometimes I make big purchases, or at least big for me, like the Kendrick Ball I brought home from Wilmington this year or the 1860 American at the Louisville national. I always find SOMETHING interesting, though, with enough looking-often it's something inexpensive like a PL I don't have/haven't seen before or a nice '83 Crescent St, but I can find something that interests me enough to part with money for it.

    Even absent that, though, they're worth attending to see friends and visit with them, and also along with that see their recent acquisition or stuff they pulled out of the vault just for show and tell. I'm also appreciative of getting to LOOK at really good pieces even if I can't buy them.
     
  33. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
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    May 15, 2018
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    George, as one of the I guess "younger" collectors I can know how this feels. I tend to buy at a good price if it happens or just what I want because I like it. The outsider feel is one I was luckily not having to deal with when I was first attending as a 16 year old kid going from table to table was much more welcoming. But what we all have to remember is that it is the collecting that should unite us. Not everyone will be open and welcoming but not everyone is tight lipped either.

    I personally don't care if there is a good old boys club or not. I enjoy the watches and if there is good company to go along with that, more the better. But there is no need to feel as though one "belongs" to appreciate our hobby. If I ever get to a show and I get to see you, I would be happy to chat watches.
     
  34. Rhett Lucke

    Rhett Lucke Board Secretary
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    Feb 18, 2001
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    York always seems to be a good regional and in my opinion, this year was no exception. It is my understanding that tables were sold out well in advance, with a sizable waiting list. I didn't perform a count, but there seem to be a good mix of clock, pocket and wrist watches available. There was also a nice display and a number of good presentations.

    From my vantage point as a buyer, purchasing activity appeared to be strong - especially on Saturday. For me personally, the regional proved to be a savings account disaster as I found a number of interesting items to add to the hoard.

    Finally, It was also great to see quite a few old friends and meet a few new ones. Swapping lies and talking (and learning about) watches and other timepieces is always a high point of any regional. Being close to Columbia also afforded the opportunity to visit the NAWCC Museum with a number of my fellow watch nerds.
     
  35. George Frick

    George Frick Registered User
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    Sep 8, 2016
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    Kevin, thank you for understanding.
    I hope to go to the York regional in a couple years. My daughter moved to Hersey
     
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  36. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Dec 5, 2014
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    Hi, George -
    I am glad that you will continue to attend Regionals as each one is different and there's always something new to see. Your posts raised some good thoughts. When we joined, we were primarily interested in clocks, but after walking around a couple of Regionals and reading Bulletin articles, I was soon hooked on all things watch-related. I started looking at Regionals in a new way, really looking at what was on the watch tables and asking questions about what I was seeing. Of course, some folks weren't real outgoing (welcoming), but others have been most welcoming, talking with me, giving me their business cards, and even going so far as to send me letters or emails as follow ups with additional information or references that I might find interesting.

    Having said that, I must admit that in general, I am the one who starts the conversation. And I'm ok with that. However, perhaps this is something that we as table holders should remember - to make it a point to greet people, be willing to engage in conversations and help educate those who have questions. Not only at Regionals, but also at chapter meetings and other gatherings. What better way to attract new members than to share our enthusiasm and love of horology?

    Pat
     
  37. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    As part of the executive comitee for the chapter i am in. We have discussed how to be more friendlier to new people coming to our Chapter. I think we proved we are a friendly group when we had our booth at the Carp Fair recently. Being friendly to people i believe encourages more people to join a chapter and also for them to participate in the chapter.
     
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