McIntyre Watch on ebay?

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by KipW, Jun 28, 2019.

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  1. KipW

    KipW Registered User
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  2. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I originally moved this post to quarantine yesterday because it was an active auction on ebay
    but the auction has ended so it back out of quarantine.


    Rob
     
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  3. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Rob it’s mine I bought it !! Is it ok that i charged it to your credit card? :) seriously someone paid up for that rare beautiful watch wow
     
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  4. Clint Geller

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    Tom McIntyre has done the best research on this company, so I hope he got it. But looking at the sale price, I fear he did not.
     
  5. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Now there is only 3 left to be discovered. There was like 8 of them or something like that. Four outstanding now just 3
     
  6. Rick Hufnagel

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    I hope it was a legit sale. It is eBay, after all.
     
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  7. Joseph Short

    Joseph Short Registered User
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    I am always surprised when I see such high-quality items on that site.
    I am not at all familiar with selling through auctions, but I don't understand why someone would buy or sell such an item on what is basically a public auction site.
    As a seller, I would assume that a more prestigious auction company would attract a more serious buyers, which would likely result in a higher sale price.
    As a buyer, I would expect that a more prestigious auction company would have gone to great lengths to verify the item being sold, if only to protect their reputation.
     
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  8. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Here is what I had on a 992b one time as a seller. Someone buys it all original. I ship it out. They say it is not working. I get it back with half the parts stolen and eBay send them my money back. Left with a broken watch to replace the parts. Oh a swapping dials from an original to a larose is another one I had happened to me
     
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  9. Joseph Short

    Joseph Short Registered User
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    As a buyer, I do appreciate the protection that that big site provides. But I also think that they should be offering protection for the sellers, as well as arbitration of issues.
    Otherwise, it becomes an uncontrolled free for all.
    Sadly, I think that greed has become the way of the world.
     
  10. 179

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    I am certain the McIntyre will be well taken care of.
     
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  11. Gregory

    Gregory Registered User

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    I was going to bid but the $9.30 shipping was to high in my opinion. :D
     
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  12. MrRoundel

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    Beautiful watch indeed. And what a price for an American pocket watch! They'd better get a bow on that thing, and hook it to a chain, as those are some deep pockets it might be riding in. Congrat's to whoever got it.

    BTW: It wasn't the $9:30 shipping price that stopped me from bidding. It was the missing bow. Tsk, tsk...:D
     
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  13. Candew

    Candew Registered User

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    Should have bought it Gregory, shipping was $8.60 not $9.30.....a real bargain.
     
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  14. Tom McIntyre

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    The eBay seller's family bought the watch about 8 years ago in Boise ID at a yard sale.

    IMG_20190630_141222.jpg My theory is that the seller at that time thought the watch was some strange Swiss watch and did not believe the 18K mark inside the back of the case. The bow was missing at that time also so it had a negative and poorly handled impression on a buyer.

    This was such an obvious event, that I have the problem now of placating my wife for taking such a reckless action. I will be needing to sell some collateral items in my collections.

    Here is a picture of the lot that was in the yard sale.
     
  15. Clint Geller

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    Congratulations, Tom!
     
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  16. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Actually, this one was not included in the estimate of production I made several years ago. The master watch that was made by DeLong as production was begun was the only one with the MWCo logo known at that time. This is the second example, not counting Vance LaPorte's "school" watch that has his personal signature in the gold insert on the movement.

    My friend Bruce McIntyre owns the master watch and I have spent quite a bit of time with it.

    One of the examples without the logo is the one on display at the Halim Time and Glass Museum. The other known example was pictured in the Watch & Clock Bulletin article by Keller & Lund in 1989 on the company. https://docs.nawcc.org/Bulletins/1980/articles/1989/260/260_195a.pdf https://docs.nawcc.org/Bulletins/1980/articles/1989/260/260_195b.pdf

    There is also a single 12 size example that DeLong made in response to Fred McIntyre's report from his trip around the Midwest to enlist jewelers as sales franchises.

    McIntyre.pdf My conjecture about this new example is that was the second example that Fred carried on his franchise sales tour. The master watch example is cased as an open face while the new example is cased as a hunter.

    Fred does not mention leaving a watch with one of the candidate franchisees during the tour, but one might have wanted it badly enough to have made a full value deposit. He describes each of the franchisees in some detail.

    This presentation covers much of the history of the company.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    nice Tom!


    Rob
     
  18. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    When I lost my home server a few years ago, the original AWCo and MWCo sites went away. However the Internet Archive preserved most of the material and, one day, I will restore the facility by adding its content to the current web hosted AWCo Web site.

    The archive url is McIntyre Watch Company Home. The Fred McIntyre sales diary is on that site as McIntyre Brochure.
     
  19. Clint Geller

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    Tom, you ought to write something for the Bulletin on this as well. Your research deserves to be in a journal as well as your personal website. Both have their overlapping roles, but one does not substitute for the other.
     
  20. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    My current NAWCC volunteer work takes up about 65 hours a week and it takes a lot more time to even pretend to write a scholarly article for the bulletin than it does to work in a fluid medium like the Internet.

    I particularly like the wiki format of our Encyclopedia because you can freely edit what you have written and the history of your changes is available to anyone who might be confused by the changes you make as you learn more.

    I do like writing for the Bulletin, but my last article on the 1870 model took over 200 hours to create and prepare for submission.
     
  21. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    This is particularly true when those who make changes make the effort to fill out the "Reason for editing: field with a reasonable (albeit short) description of what they changed.
     
  22. Clint Geller

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    I completely understand your time constraints, Tom. I haven’t kept track of the time I have spent in my recent article and the book, but it was an enormous time investment. The obvious advantage of on-line wiki or blog sources, as you jdentified, is that they can be updated as new information becomes available. The advantage of either print or electronic journal articles is precisely that they are static, which makes them superior for reference purposes in scholarly work. Having an edit history helps, but does not fully eliminate the drawback of fluid sources.
     
  23. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I agree it is not what one would consider scholarship in an academic or professional context. That was my life for a long time, but I am old enough now that I can relax my rules on scholarship and be a bit more reckless in my remarks (as long as I give the audience clear warning that they need to check my work. :))

    My good friends Kent and Jerry know that my work needs to be checked and have generously provided that service on many occasions.
     
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  24. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    All any of us can hope to do is to leave the state of knowledge in a field better than we found it. You have accomplished that.
     
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  25. Tom McIntyre

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    The McIntyre arrived this morning. It is everything I hoped it would be. In rereading Fred’s notes on the product set after a comment by @beta21, I now think there may have been two grades of watches planned.

    Those with the logo insert would have been grade I and those without grade II. With open face and hunting dials that would be four models and Fred would have had all four on the sales trip.

    I can account for all four of them. Bruce has the grade I master OF with the engraved cuvette and this watch is the HC grade I. The grade II HC is believed to be with Bruce’s brother’s family and the OF grade II is in the Time and Glass Museum.
    27F329AC-9CE5-49DD-A528-AFCF00A00051.jpeg 0E673421-DB66-468B-861C-6716FF2E6844.jpeg 80E5D1FA-5CD5-4186-B3D8-B42810E29D2D.jpeg 1140342A-7033-4DD3-A0B6-D2070A32E2EF.jpeg F32E375D-F1A5-4F1D-9ADA-8B844785F668.jpeg 0F5E1BD0-4A53-4700-8A5A-55D048F99165.jpeg CD389522-4EDC-4F4F-B978-30FE919912D6.jpeg
    Apart from the missing bow and a plastic crystal the watch is pristine.
     
  26. John Cote

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    Glad you got it Tom....now to go through your bow jar.
     
  27. Tom McIntyre

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    I will probably take it to Denis for a check out. He has the prototype nearly ready to go and I am sure he can find a bow. I have access to the world's largest store of crystals (I think) so the crystal will not be a problem.

    I wound it when I got it this morning and will have to finish the examination later.

    This watch is lever set. As I noticed on the LaPorte "school" watch the movement can be either lever set or pendant set by making a minor parts switch. DeLong's patented dial bezel makes it easy to change the OF/HC configuration also. A dealer could stock a single movement and offer 4 different "models."

    Since the plug is replaceable and the plates unmarked on both grades, Fred may have been pitching private label sales but he makes no mention of it.

    DeLong's milled decoration is very durable and could be refreshed with very simple tools if a shop were so inclined.
     
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  28. MrRoundel

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    A yard sale, eh? Wow, just wow. That's one for the books. Heck the Antiques Road Show would salivate over that story. Congrat's to the new owner on getting it, despite not finding it at the yard sale. RIP to the guy who ran the Boise yard sale. :cool:
     
  29. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I hope your children will appreciate your watch collection.


    Rob
     
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  30. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Absolutely wonderful
     
  31. Rhett Lucke

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    Congratulations Tom. What a great birthday gift ;)
     
  32. Clint Geller

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    It is always nice to see an important watch go to the preeminent researcher in the field, and not just some wealthy dilettante with a big checkbook. Congratulations, Tom.
     
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  33. PatH

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    Tom, wonderful watches. Congratulations! Are the drawings for the two different grades included in the company materials?
     
  34. Paul Regan

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    Congratulations Tom, beautiful watch!
     
  35. Tom McIntyre

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    I am inferring there were two different grades from some of Fred's handwritten notes. The factory materials are drawings and examples and appear to only describe a single but very flexible model.

    In his notes Fred is actually talking about a line of mostly 14 size watches. I think this was thinking on paper after the jewelers had said they preferred smaller watches and DeLong had made a simplified 14 size example. The notes list several sizes and grades I, II and III.

    It is the symmetry of the existing examples that has me thinking there may have been specifically 4 model watches made. The Bulletin article by Keller and Lund shows a picture of the HC watch without the logo plug and the watch in the Time and Glass Museum also does not have the plug. All four examples have the distinctive plate decoration that was effectively a "signature" for DeLong. I have not seen it on any watches that he was not involved with.

    When Donald McIntyre's widow gave me a box of scrap parts I noticed the design on the plates of an incomplete, disassembled watch. Bill Tapp finished the winding mechanism from the parts but then could not work on it any longer due to health issues. Denis Carignan is currently putting it in order to run for demonstration purposes.

    The other closely related watch is a larger full plate watch by DeLong that has the wind indicator mechanism as it is shown in the patent drawing with the wind indicator hand concentric with the second hand. That watch and the prototype both have DeLong's patented regulator, while the McIntyre watches have Fred's patent regulator that makes the watch appear to be free sprung. That watch belongs to Bruce also along with his grandfather's "school watch" that he made under DeLong's instruction and which was used in the advertising for the Southern Horological Institute where DeLong went while Fred was trying to find a factory location for the new company.

    Bruce and I have been discussing donating both of these collections to the NAWCC Museum at some future date. We would really like to see the story preserved.
     
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  36. sderek

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    Congrats Tom. Were the sellers surprised at the selling price? Did they have any idea of what it might bring?
     
  37. Tom McIntyre

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    I think they had no idea. The seller does not deal in watches. I think he mostly buys and sells fishing equipment. As I mentioned before the family bought the watch 8 years ago according to the seller. He started the bidding at $9.95, I believe.

    I hope I can persuade him to share some of the windfall with the yard sale person, but that will be his decision.
     
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  38. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    #38 musicguy, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Being from a yard sale 8 years ago I highly doubt it (but you never know).

    It looks like you or someone did the right thing and let them know what
    they had before the auction was over. I see they changed their description
    in their auction after it started.



    Rob
     
  39. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Another member here was the back bidder. After his $15K bid there was no further competition except between us. We did not speak about it until after the sale, but we both knew.
     
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  40. Nigel Harrison

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    Great story Tom and Congratulations! Another chapter written around these watches.
     
  41. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    So proud of you Tom you did it right all the way. Kinda like me telling the yard sale people the 1866 Waltham was worth way more than the asking price. You did good my brother
     
  42. Scott Tzorfas

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    Tom,
    Congrats on this watch. Just fantastic!!
    Scott
     

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