Master Navigation Watches: A-9; A-13; 5740; and 5740-1

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by grtnev, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Dave Chaplain

    Dave Chaplain Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    On closer inspection the contract order number marked on the case for sn 40470553 has an additional numeral and the full case makings are:

    TYPE A-13
    SPEC. NO. AN-GG-W-108
    SER. NO. AC42-4781
    MFRS. PART NO. 1786
    ORD. NO. W535AC-28071
    ELGIN

    And additionally, sn 40470707 is also in an A-13 style case with case markings:

    TYPE A-13
    SPEC. NO. AN-GG-W-108
    SER. NO. AC42-2089
    MFRS. PART NO. 1786
    ORD. NO. W535AC-28071
    ELGIN

    The last numeral in the contract order number is nearly lost to the naked eye on both cases.
     
  2. Jason Herron

    Jason Herron Registered User

    Dec 29, 2018
    6
    2
    3
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Got it! Thank you. Looks like according to what I have found it was made in 1940!
    Thanks again,
    Jason

    5D104287-C3EF-40A9-82F4-9F2B553F873C.jpeg
     
    viclip and musicguy like this.
  3. Jason Herron

    Jason Herron Registered User

    Dec 29, 2018
    6
    2
    3
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Hi everyone,
    I just found out some very interesting information about the owner of the watch I had asked about in this thread. It belonged to Hank Dyminski, my wive’s grandmother’s second husband. He was a member of Jay Zeamer’s Eager Beavers and a crew member on the “Old 666”. If this watch is from that plane, then it is really something special but is there any way to tell if it is? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Jason
     
  4. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    I would say no, unless someone from a particular plane had the watch and documented it.
    There would be no way to know.


    Rob
     
  5. Jason Herron

    Jason Herron Registered User

    Dec 29, 2018
    6
    2
    3
    Male
    Country Flag:
    So were watches like this issued to individuals or to an aircraft?
    Thanks
     
  6. Leigh Callaway

    Leigh Callaway Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 5, 2011
    109
    101
    43
    Upper Valley, New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Depends on the service, maybe even the type aircraft.

    In his book "Time for America" (pp 107-108) Don Sauers describes a Hamilton 4992B SN 4C77991 which was issued to him personally for WWII service in the Pacific.

    In the 1960s, Navy patrol squadrons kept the watches in the communications office and the watches were issued with cryptographic material just prior to a sortie. The watches - and the crypto - were returned to the comm office after the flight. The Comm Officer was responsible for the care and condition of the watches.
     
    viclip and musicguy like this.
  7. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    814
    188
    43
    Country Flag:
    Hi Rob,
    What about this!
     
  8. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    Thanks PL I know(I've read it before), I can't explain the reason but my own Elgin A-13(and it could be an early one) has been
    examined by me and a very competent watchmaker(who totally disassembled it) and there is no hack feature on
    my watch.


    Rob
     
  9. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    814
    188
    43
    Country Flag:
    Does it have a white dial?
     
  10. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
  11. C. N. Lloyd

    C. N. Lloyd Registered User

    Jan 3, 2009
    78
    5
    8
    Male
    Reg. Land Surveyor & Lt. Col. of Field Artillery
    Red Level, Alabama
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Just so everyone has this information on this thread:

    Concerning the Elgin Master Navigation Watches, on the A13 case, Part No. 1767 is a white 0-23 dial. Part No. 1786 is a black 0-23 dial. Part No. 1790 indicates a black 1-24 dial, and the case will be marked AN 5740. Grtnev found the source documentation for this in 2017. Now, yours may not house the movement is it supposed to, but now you know what was in the case to begin with.

    The Master Navigation Watch AN 5740 was part of the navigation kit that was used jointly by the Army and Navy, hence the AN designation. The A13 had been developed by the USAAC, and was more of a straight Army issue. Hamilton never made many, if any A13s; their entire WWII MNW production was the AN 5740. The watch itself was a component of the kit, which, like all of the other non-expendable components, had to be accounted for upon turn-in or when ordering replacement components. Other components of the kit would have included charts, pins, dividers, pencils, circular slide rules for airspeed and dead reckoning, a sextant or octant, and other watches like a Hamilton M23 chronograph, which mounted on the octant, and probably a couple of stop watches for fixed point navigation speed calculation, which also doubled for bomb time to impact calculations.

    As the kit was generic, it is very unlikely that any particular kit or individual component could be traced to a particular airplane. All you would have would be the word of a particular user.

    C. N. Lloyd
    40 years of pocket watch collecting
     
  12. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    Case:
    Type A-13
    SPEC NO AN-GG-W-108
    SER NO AC42-3593
    MFRS PART NO 1786
    ORD NO W535AC-2807
    Elgin​

    My best guess is that the "Hack" was removed during service probably when in the Service.
    IMG_4386 (2).JPG IMG_4345[1].JPG IMG_4388 (2).JPG



    EDIT: I posted more about this watch 2 years ago
    1942 Elgin B W Raymond 581 A-13 Master Navigation Watch GCT





    Rob
     
    PapaLouies likes this.
  13. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    814
    188
    43
    Country Flag:
    93014[1].jpg
    PL
     
    viclip likes this.
  14. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Silver Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    18,237
    1,418
    113
    Country Flag:
    #64 Kent, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    This looks like the same article posted by Robert Sweet on May 23, 2011, thanks for reposting it.
     
  15. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    814
    188
    43
    Country Flag:
    Rob, does your G.C.T. BW Raymond have an un-cut balance wheel and a white metal hairspring?
    Regards, PL
     
  16. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    cut balance, the hairspring is silver colored(white metal yes)
    bwraymond a-13.jpg


    Rob
     
  17. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    814
    188
    43
    Country Flag:
    I don't detect cuts in the rim of the balance near the arms of the wheel.
    Is this balance wheel like the standard bimetallic compensated balance?
    Regards, PL
     
  18. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    4,225
    1,758
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    #68 musicguy, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    I do know that the Elgin invar type balance
    were cut about 1/3 of the way around and not next to the
    arm.


    bwraymond a-13.jpg



    EDIT here is another Elgin 581 with the cut in the same place.
    1943 Elgin grade 581 model 15 24hr


    Rob
     

Share This Page