Marsh's Movement Protector

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Kevin Neathery, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Tom,

    Can't seem to find much about these. You have a dead link to a page you have. I am considering buying one in the correct gold case with the correct movement.

    I would like to know more about them if you have a moment.

    Also....the patent, despite being "Marsh's Patent Movement Protector" does not look like the movement and case were patented by him.

    https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/reference/patent/1128526/waltham-watch-movement-case

    Thanks
    Kevin
     
  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,796
    1,294
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2 Tom McIntyre, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    The page is still available in the Internet Archive and it will be moved back to AWCo.org eventually. Here is the link to the Marsh Patent page there.
    Case Patent

    Here is the link to the page with my story about them.
    The Marsh Watch
     
  3. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Awesome!

    But.... It looks like the 2 patents were used in conjunction with each other. Look at how the case/attachment screws are placed on the movement design for Rushton and the way it attaches. Where as Marsh's patent does not take into account the movement method of attachment to the protector. So I guess Marsh came up with the protector and Rushton figured out how to attach the watch to it?

    Kevin
     
  4. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  5. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,796
    1,294
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Or Marsh hired Rushton to work on it. Marsh was the Superintendent and the patent was assigned to Waltham. A work for hire does not give one naming rights.
     
  6. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I went ahead and bought it. May have over paid but I think it is a very interesting piece. I will replace the dial like for like though as the one one it has severe damage by the seconds and a replacement is very cheap.

    I tried using the Waltham serial look up but it only gives me the generic Grade 220 numbers. Is there ant guess on the Marsh's movement numbers?

    Kevin
     
  7. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Oh and there is a 10 year gap between patents. Hmmm Curious lol
     
  8. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,796
    1,294
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The original patent had the movement held with dog screws. The latches were an improvement. I suspect that reading the patent would reveal that it cites the first patent and is considered an improvement.

    I had not seen the second patent before this conversation.
     
  9. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have read the 2nd patent and there is no mention of the previous patent. They seem to be writing as if the the Marsh patent did not apply to this one.
     
  10. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Found another related patent by Rushton from 1914. 1088097

    US1088097A - Watch case and movement lock. - Google Patents

    This appears to be the attaching mechanism. "Watch Case and Movement Lock"

    So it appears that Marsh was the inventor of the initial design of the insert that could be used on thin watch cases and protest the movement still. That is the "Marsh's Patent" part. But the methods of movement being installed were Rushton's patent. So the only reason they are called Marsh's movements and all is because they went into a Marsh's protector. But Marsh was not the sole inventor.

    Thoughts? I would not mind presenting this info to everyone but you are the one that has looked into much of this longer than I have and I don't want to step on your toes. I respect your work.

    Thanks
    Kevin
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,796
    1,294
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think this would make a good discussion in the APW forum. With respect to the invention, the thing gold case and stiff cuvette are the key elements I think, so Rushton's work was an enhancement to the original. It is very likely that rushton also worked for and reported to Marsh since his patent was asigned to waltham and Marsh was the Superintendent of the factory..

    I can look at just moving this conversation to the forum as a discussion if you like.
     
  12. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I will add on to a discussion that was last out there about the Marsh watches. The pamphlet that you have out there is cool. Wish it had a printing date. Curious on how all this falls together. From the initial patent being submitted by Marsh which was applied for on March 1 1905 and granted on May 2 1905 all the way to the last one by Rushton applied for on Apr 12 1912 but granted on Feb 16 1915. But the one in between was actually filed Mar 25 1913 and granted Feb 24 1914. It is like they applied for the movement design and then the locking mechanism but the final one was not patented until after that one....Like it was put on hold.
     
  13. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I went ahead and posted the info.

    Could you help me with one more thing? Waltham records. Who has them? The lookup only gives me the generic grey sheet that shows the 220 but nothing about Marsh. You mention that there is an indication of the Marsh's movements in the records.

    Thanks
    Kevin
     
  14. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,796
    1,294
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I can move this conversation to a thread and then merge it with the previous one. Let me do that first so you can continue in the thread.
     
  15. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 15, 2018
    647
    195
    43
    Male
    IT Security
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    No need. I just went ahead and posted the question in the thread. Everything else that we talked about is in there too.

    Thanks
    Kevin
     

Share This Page