Marsh Movement Protector

Jerry Treiman

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I believe these came with standard Waltham dials.
 

Tom McIntyre

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I have the patent papers and the advertising material for this watch and I think the dial is pretty standard for the period.

My web page on it is not yet complete, but it does show a lot of pictures of the watch. I need to scan the reference material and put it up also.

7.jpg

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Tom McIntyre
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Tommy the JOAT's Web

[This message has been edited by Tom McIntyre (edited 11-10-2002).]
 

4thdimension

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Thank you for the post and pic. I got one of these as a stray part and it is nice to see it in situ. I have not seen the patent but assume it helped protect the mov't
when the customer asked for a case
made of that flimsy gold stuff. :)
-Cort

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p.s. Mine isn't steel
<[';')>

[This message has been edited by 4thdimension (edited 11-10-2002).]
 

Tom McIntyre

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The movement that goes in the protector is a distinct movement model. It does not have case screws. Both latches and one of the latch screws are missing from my example.

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Tom McIntyre
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Kevin Neathery

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So I have one of these on the way. Saved from a scrapper. When someone does no research on a watch and likes to talk mostly about the weight of the gold, that is someone who is only looking for the gold content value. So when I came across it for sale, I was not looking for it, just hunting based on feel.

I have been discussing with Tom McIntyre about these. Marsh's patent is 788,923. Applied for on Mar 1, 1905 and granted May 2, 1905. Links for the patents will be at the end. This patent shows the movement holder being held in place by half screws. I am not sure at the moment if this is the only patent by Marsh for this though as there should be indication of the protective case lid and all but there in not. So the reason it is called Marsh's patent is because of this inner case, but the rest of the elements were not Marsh.

In digging I found 2 further patents done by John W Rushton. The first depends on how you look at it. If you go by the applied date 1128526 comes before 1088097. 1128526 was applied for on Apr 18, 1912 but not granted until Feb 16, 1915. 1088097 was applied for on Mar 25, 1913 and granted on Feb 24, 1914. So it almost appears that they put the first one on hold until the 2nd one was granted. The patent first applied for shows the movement without case screws and with the latching mechanism that we see on the Marsh movements. Fig 7 in this patent is the part you find in the other patent, the actual latching mechanism part.

So the history appears to be that Marsh came up with the protection method and Rushton came up with how to make it work. What is fun is that you can see a development timeline. The initial application was in 1905 and the final granting was in 1915. 10 years of development in a sense. Tom's scan of the pamphlet for the Marsh's Patent Watch helps with our understanding as to why they went through this trouble. It also gives us pricing info. You had 3 movement grades. Grade 225 17j, 220 15j, and the 210 7j. All appear to have had a standard 12s single sunk "WALTHAM" dial.

The one I have on the way has one with the red outer numbers but is severely damaged near the seconds. I already have a replacement dial coming that matches it. The case is marked "Made for Waltham Watch Co" "Wadsworth 14 Karat". It has the damaskeed center portion of the protective case cover as seen in the pamphlet. Mine is a grade 220 simply marked "15 jewels" and no other markings besides the serial 17754781.

The obvious intent of these watches were to offer the ability to have a lower cost gold case without sacrificing protection of the movement. It allowed Waltham to offer "Solid 14k Gold" watches at a lower price point than others. You could get a solid gold grade 225 17j for $28. A solid gold Hamilton 17j 12s at the time would be about double this. I would have to look p more to get an exact price.

Marsh's Patent
US788923A - Watchcase. - Google Patents

Rushton's Patents
US1088097A - Watch case and movement lock. - Google Patents

US1128526A - Watch movement and case. - Google Patents

I want to give a shout out to Tom on helping me understand some of what I was seeing. :)

Tom's page about the Marsh watch.... The Marsh Watch
 
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Kevin Neathery

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Could anyone help me with one more thing? Waltham records. Who has them? The lookup only gives me the generic grey sheet that shows the 220 but nothing about Marsh. Tom mentions that there is an indication of the Marsh's movements in the records on another thread.
 

Tom McIntyre

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I do not remember for sure, but I believe some of the runs in the gray book have a footnote mark and the phrase Marsh Watch appears at the bottom of the page.That is not true for your example when Iook at the gray book or for the one shown on my old site.

Jerry is much better with details than I. We can hope that he has kept track of the reference.
 

Jerry Treiman

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I am afraid that I do not have any notes on Marsh movement protectors or movements from the serial number lists, but these are intriguing watches that did not seem to be part of the Waltham line for very many years. I found them listed in catalogs from 1916 and 1917.
Marshad.jpg

I found it curious that, for a movement protector designed for thin gold cases, they also offered them in gold-filled cases.

Here is one of the Riverside models mentioned in the catalog ad.
19079621m.jpg
 
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Kevin Neathery

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I am afraid that I do not have any notes on Marsh movement protectors or movements from the serial number lists, but these are intriguing watches that did not seem to be part of the Waltham line for very many years. I found them listed in catalogs from 1916 and 1917.
View attachment 526679

I found it curious that, for a movement protector designed for thin gold cases, they also offered them in gold-filled cases.

Here is one of the Riverside models mentioned in the catalog ad.
View attachment 526680
Thank you Jerry!

I was noticing the price change too. In the earlier advertising pamphlet the 7j and 17j gold watches were much cheaper. A few dollars even is significant based on inflation.

Looks like the eliminated the 15j model or it was just not listed. I also find it interesting as well as you do that they added gold filled cases to the line. But based on the increase in prices for gold cases it may have been a way to offer a lower priced model case. Possibly to help try and close out on these movements?
 

Kevin Neathery

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It arrived and boy is the gold thin on these watches. I already took care of the dial issue. This one has one hairline that would vanished if soaked. The other had too much damage.

The protector ring with cover and movement are all removed from the back and the movement is pressed out of the ring from the back. Rather tight fit. The heads to the latch screws are domed and polished. If the protector is even a little loose in the case it will rattle and cause the wear on the inside of the outer lid that you see.

Happily added to my core collection as I do like unusual.

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