Marquand & Brothers Pocket Watch

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by tgarnold, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. It's Coming
    Just Two More Days
  1. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    I'm curious if anyone knows who made this case. It is marked AB as seen in the photo. I'd guess it is an American company, but I believe this is likely a Swiss private label watch for Marquand & Brothers. There were no pictures of the movement. The auction has ended. It looks like Marquand & Brothers was only named M&B and located at 181 Broadway in 1833.

    marchand.jpg
     
  2. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
    Sponsor Gold Business Member

    Sep 3, 2000
    7,035
    339
    83
    Male
    watches
    Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  3. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
    Sponsor Gold Business Member

    Sep 3, 2000
    7,035
    339
    83
    Male
    watches
    Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Medal presented to the Marquis de Lafayette, designed by Thomas J. Brown, made by Frederick Marquand & Brothers, New York City, 1832, gold with
     
  4. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    How were the different colors applied to the cuvette? It seems remarkably well preserved for almost 190 years.
     
  5. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    2,253
    983
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think there is a need for further research regarding the name and address.

    According to site americansilversmiths.org that I have found to be a reliable source, Frederick Marquand was a partner in 1825-1830 with Isaac Marquand in New York City as MARQUAND & BROTHER. They continued at 166 Broadway with Isaac still listed in the city directory as a merchant and his son as a jeweller. Subsequently he was a partner from 1830 to 1833 with Isaac , Joseph Penfield Marquand & Erastus Osborne Tompkins as MARQUAND & BROTHERS. Then from 1833 to 1838 with Isaac , Henry Gurdon Marquand, Erastus Osborne Tompkins, William Black, and Henry Ball as MARQUAND & Co., with a new store at 181 Broadway. After the death of Isaac Marquand, Frederick and Josiah left the firm, which became BALL, BLACK & THOMPKINS.

    This is confirmed by two trade directory listings that I have ...

    In 1832

    upload_2020-4-14_23-26-2.png

    and 1846

    upload_2020-4-14_23-27-0.png

    John
     
  6. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    John, I had read those references before posting and my assumption was they likely planned to move to the property well before the 1833 opening. I have seen the 181 Broadway address on a few Marquand & Brothers watches. The watch linked below does seem to undermine it a little though. It is a Marquand & Brother (no S) labeled watch with the 181 address.

    England, for Marquand & Brother, New York, man's fusee pocket watch, 7 jewels, key wind and set, gilt plate movement with Massey III lever escapement in an 18 karat, yellow gold, engine turned, consular open face case with London hallmark and date
     
  7. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    2,253
    983
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    In your link Schmitt & Horan made a mistake, the [k] is for 1845/46 not 1865. You can see that there is a double vertical stroke ...

    upload_2020-4-15_16-8-10.png

    The case maker is probably John Hammon [IH] of 11 Gloucester Street Clerkenwell registered 12 March,1836. My view would be that the case and movement are of that date.

    Given the trade directory listing of 1846 showing Frederick & Henry being shown at 181 as retired jewellers, I think anything is possible!

    John
     
  8. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    Does anyone recognize the AB case maker on this case or possibly know what the other symbol is below it?
     
  9. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    11,039
    303
    83
    UK
    Country Flag:
    That outer cover is a later replacement, and it is Swiss since the assay marks are the Neuchatel chevron (which I assume is what I see below the AB) and K18. That suggests to me that the AB mark could be for Arthur Baume, who was a London importer (mainly for Longines) rather that the maker of the case.
     
    Jeff Hess likes this.
  10. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    Marty, you were of course right about the Neuchatel chevron. I'm a little confused though, because the cuvette also has the chevron in the same place. The movement seems consistent with the 1833 or so date. Do you think the whole case was redone with the Marquand Brothers information? It seems unlikely it would be re-cased a few decades later and all the original info was used. Anyway, it is a lovely movement and in great working order. I can only find one similar duplex movement, but it is an active auction for a Brothers Melly watch that I can't link to.

    WIN_20200417_16_03_35_Pro.jpg WIN_20200417_16_03_54_Pro.jpg WIN_20200417_16_04_21_Pro.jpg WIN_20200417_16_04_50_Pro.jpg WIN_20200417_16_05_03_Pro.jpg
     
    pmwas likes this.
  11. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    11,039
    303
    83
    UK
    Country Flag:
    I'm always happy to create a little confusion :excited: That was my mistake - I was looking at the hallmarked case in John's post #8 and thinking that was a picture of YOUR watch!

    It all makes more sense to me now. If you have the chevron inside the cuvette, then your case seems whole and original. I wouldn't argue with the date of 1833 although I wouldn't argue with as much as 30 years later.

    I too think it's a great watch! :)
     
  12. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    No problem, I'm never going to argue with any of the people on this board that have helped me learn so much. It just motivated me all the more to investigate the watch and make sure I understood what I have. The Marquand and Brothers branding does make me believe it was around 1833 just because that is when they changed names. However, there does seem to be some evidence the names and addresses for the company were more fluid than is documented.
     
  13. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    So, I've dived a little deeper into this one and removed the dial. It is a nice friction fit dial and the back of the dial is inscribed. It says AB Briffin in bold print. Then there is 1343 which matches the movement number and what looks like Favre and initials that look like GJ.

    WIN_20200420_12_47_21_Pro.jpg WIN_20200420_12_43_34_Pro.jpg WIN_20200420_12_43_10_Pro.jpg
     
  14. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    Here is a better view of the small writing on the dial. It could be Favre JL over the 1343.

    favre.jpg
     
  15. tgarnold

    tgarnold Registered User

    Jun 14, 2012
    276
    7
    18
    I gently cleaned the silver dial and this part has a different color at approximately where the hinged cover lifts. What is this made of and what caused the discoloration? It is evident in my pictures before the tarnish was removed. It's not horrible, but odd.

    WIN_20200508_13_07_54_Pro.jpg
     

Share This Page