Markwick repair

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Jeff Hess, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    My watch makers are fearless and they've pulled off some real Miracles over the years. I can't wait to show them this baby tomorrow. Will they tell me to go to Hades! Or will they say heck yeah boss we can fix that LOL any any comments on the historical nature of this watch or any other aspects is appreciated

    20180408_182139.jpg
     
  2. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    Another pic

    20180408_182105.jpg
     
  3. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Jeff, I really like it; you know what you have to do, is purchase it for a few Thousand Dollars and sell it to me for a Few Dollars like last time. (Gallet New York) Regards Ray
     
  4. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    ray. you are an evil man.

    besides, i make it up in volume.
     
  5. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Thanks Jeff, a bit of humor goes a long way. Regards Ray
     
  6. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Jeff,

    There were three Markwicks recorded as working in London at the end of the 17th and beginning of the 18th centuries, two named James (father, 1656-1698, and son, 1692-1730, Master of the Clockmakers Company in 1720), and Markham. However the Markham name may be a confusion because James junior was in partnership with a Robert Markham who succeeded him in 1730, and some watches with the signature 'Markwick Markham' are known. Watches signed for 'Markwick' are amongst the first known fakes originating from the European continent, however this watch does appear to be genuine, as far as I can tell from the pictures, (which isn't much!).

    It's most probably a quarter repeater (as opposed to anything more complex) and appears to date from the early 1720s, thus a product of James junior, with the usual assortment of replaced screws and missing taper pins, in scruffy condition, in need of a good clean and the stabilisation of some corrosion. What type of dial and hands does it have? Can you post some more pictures of the case(s) and other views?

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  7. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Are there any HM´s on the case Jeff. It would also help if there were an initial somewhere. I ask because this name and the family in London is really complicated. HM´s could give us a date to start with.
    Alone in London there was James Markwick Snr. & Jnr., Markwick William and Marwick Charles. Then later Markwick-Markam, Markwick-Markham & Perigal. and that was after Markwick was dead. Plus others scattered
    about the south of Watford. If you can get the book "English clocks for the Eastern Markets" by Ian White it could give some answers. Allan.
     
  8. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    A Quick PS: I did not want to mention fake watches till I saw your answer Jeff. James Markwick died in 1730, making his will in 1729, and it is thought he went into parnership with Markham around that time. More than likely to to save the business.
    Markham by the way had nothing to do with the watch trade he was a member of the curriers company. It was probably money and management that brought him to the parnership.(Family Member). All firms useing the Markwick-Markam name were never partners of the two men. Markham died in 1841. Others who used the name were Henry Borrel, Francis Perigal, Issac Rogers, William Story, Louis Recordon. James Upjohn, and William Kipling. Your watch though will I think be well worth restoring. Allan
     
  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Robert Markham was apprenticed to Alexander Hewitt in 1700 through the Curriers company, but Alexander Hewitt was a clockmaker, so it seems likely Robert Markham would have have been trained that way too.
     
  10. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Nick-where did that come from. Dennis Moore´s book has no entry For Robert Markham, Alexander Hewitt has three, but none of his app. are named Markham. The Loomes entry is in conflict with the information by Ian Whiie, who went to great trouble to sort out this complex family. Has I said both Markwick and Markham were both dead before the so called partnership with Perigal
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Clockmakers of Britain 1286-1700 by Loomes
     
  12. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Thanks Nick, just read it in Loomes- Shall we just say the facts don´t fit.I have sent you a PM.
     
  13. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I know Brian doesn't always get it right, but where are you getting the facts from? Is there a directory of Curriers apprentices available?
     
  14. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Ian Whites book-see above.Post 47. -Allan.
     
  15. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    That's just one book against another though. We have the records of the clockmakers company apprentices as a source, is there such a record for the Curriers company.
     
  16. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    True, but Ian White wrote his book after Loomes, so would have read his comments. White when writing about the Markwick family concentrated only on that family, and produced the Will´s of Markwick and Markham.plus the probate documents.So I believe his version is more reliable. The Curriers records, I have no idea.There is disc on the net called "Caps, Clogs & Gentry vintage Genealogy & history books on CD" The records of the companies below are all there.
    List of Worshipful Companies on Your Disc



    1) The Worshipful Company of Musicians (1905)


    Author: Worshipful Company of Musicians

    Publisher: London: Issued by the Livery Club of the company for private circulation


    2) Legends of the Worshipful Company of Plaisterers (1886)


    Publisher: London: Harrison


    3) Some account of the Worshipful Company of Ironmongers (1851)


    Author: Nicholl, John, 1790-1871

    Publisher: London: J.B. Nichols and son


    4) A short history of the Worshipful Company of Horners (1912)


    Author: Rosedale, H. G. (Honyel Gough), 1863-1928

    Publisher: London: Blades, East & Blades


    5) An historical account of the Worshipful Company of Girdlers, London (1905)


    Author: Smythe, William Dumville, b. 1871

    Publisher: London: Printed at the Chiswick Press


    6) A list of the wardens, assistants and livery, of the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths, London (1907)


    Author: Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths

    Publisher: London, England : The Company


    7) Some account of the history and antiquity of the worshipful company of Skinners, London (1876)


    Author: Wadmore, James Foster

    Publisher: London: J.B. Nichols and sons


    8) Some account of the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers of the City of London (1881)


    Author: Worshipful Company of Clockmakers; Atkins, Samuel Elliott; Overall, William Henry, 1829-1888

    Publisher: London: Blades, East & Blades, printers


    9) The Worshipful Company of Painters, otherwise Painter-Stainers : its hall, pictures, and plate (1913)


    Author: Pitman, Walter Hayward

    Publisher: London: Imprinted by Blades, East & Blades



    10) A brief history of the Worshipful Company of Ironmongers, London, A. D. 1351-1889 (1889)


    Author: Noble, T. C. (Theophilus Charles)

    Publisher: London: Printed for private circulation only Spottiswoode and co.


    11) The Charter of the Worshipful Company of Poulters, London; its orders, ordinances, and constitution (1889)

    Subject: Worshipful Company of Poulters' of the City of London

    Publisher: London


    12) History of the Worshipful Company of Glaziers of the City of London (1919)


    Author: Ashdown, Charles Henry; Tippetts, Percy W. Berriman

    Publisher: London: Printed by Blades, East & Blades


    13) Some account of the Worshipful Company of Grocers of the city of London (1829)


    Author: Heath, John Benjamin, 1790-1879

    Publisher: London: W. Marchant, Printer


    14) History of the Worshipful Company of Fruiterers of the city of London (1912)


    Author: Gould, Arthur William

    Publisher: Exeter Priv. print. W. Pollard


    15) The Solicitorship to the Worshipful Company of Clothworkers; testimonials of Mr. Herbert Walter Nelson (1873)


    Subject: Nelson, Herbert Walter


    16) A transcript of the registers of the Worshipful Company of Stationers, from 1640-1708, A.D (1913)


    Author: Stationers' Company (London, England)

    Volume: 2

    Publisher: London Privately printed


    17) A transcript of the registers of the Worshipful Company of Stationers, from 1640-1708, A.D (1913)


    Author: Stationers' Company (London, England)

    Volume: 1

    Publisher: London Privately printed


    18) A transcript of the registers of the Worshipful Company of Stationers, from 1640-1708, A.D (1913)


    Author: Stationers' Company (London, England)

    Volume: 3

    Publisher: London Privately printed


    19) Some account of the worshipful Company of Skinners of London, being the guild or fraternity of Corpus Christi (1902)


    Author: Wadmore, James Foster; London, Eng. Skinners' company

    Publisher: London Blades, East & Blades


    20) History of the Worshipful Company of Gold and Silver Wyre-Drawers, and of the origin and development of the industry which the Company represents (1891)


    Author: Stewart, Horace

    Publisher: London: Printed for the Company by the Leadenhall press



    21) An historical account of the Worshipful Company of Carpenters of the city of London. Compiled chiefly from records in their possession (1848)


    Author: Jupp, Edward Basil, 1812-1877

    Publisher: London W. Pickering


    22) Some account of parish clerks, more especially of the Ancient Fraternity (Bretherne and Sisterne) of S. Nicholas, now known as the Worshipful Company of Parish Clerks (1893)


    Author: Christie, James, Chaplain

    Publisher: London


    23) The Worshipful Company of Pattenmakers. A list of master, wardens, court of assistants, and livery, with a "Short account of the patten" and "Two years' in the chair" (1890)


    Author: Lambert, George, 1823 or 4-1901

    Publisher: London


    24) The history of the Worshipful Company of the Drapers of London, preceded by an introduction on London and her Gilds up to the close of the XVth century (1914)


    Author: Johnson, A. H. (Arthur Henry), 1845-1927

    Volume: 1

    Publisher: Oxford, Clarendon, Press


    25) The history of the Worshipful Company of the Drapers of London, preceded by an introduction on London and her Gilds up to the close of the XVth century (1914)


    Author: Johnson, A. H. (Arthur Henry), 1845-1927

    Volume: 2

    Publisher: Oxford, Clarendon, Press


    26) The history of the Worshipful Company of the Drapers of London, preceded by an introduction on London and her Gilds up to the close of the XVth century (1914)


    Author: Johnson, A. H. (Arthur Henry), 1845-1927

    Volume: 3

    Publisher: Oxford, Clarendon, Press


    27) The history of the Worshipful Company of the Drapers of London, preceded by an introduction on London and her Gilds up to the close of the XVth century (1914)


    Author: Johnson, A. H. (Arthur Henry), 1845-1927

    Volume: 5

    Publisher: Oxford, Clarendon, Press


    28) A catalogue of books, manuscripts, specimens of clocks, watches and watchwork, paintings, prints, &c., in the library and museum of the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers: deposited in the Free Library of the Corporation of the City of London (1875)


    Author: Worshipful Company of Clockmakers; Guildhall Library (London, England); Overall, William Henry, 1829-1888

    Publisher: London: E.J. Francis


    29) An historical essay on the livery companies of London, with a short history of the Worshipful company of Cutlers of London, and combining an account of its charters, fundamental laws, bye-laws, estates, and charities (1881)


    Author: Cheeswright, R. J

    Publisher: Croydon: Printed by J. W. Ward, at the "Croydon advertiser" offices


    30) Luncheon at Carpenters' Hall on the occasion of the presentation of the freedom of the company to Thomas Wharrie (1915)


    Author: Worshipful Company of Carpenters (London, England)

    Publisher: London


    31) Memorials of the Goldsmiths' Company: being gleanings from their records between the years 1335 and 1815, with an introduction and notes (1896-1897)


    Author: Prideaux, Walter Sherburne, Sir, 1846-1928

    Volume: 2

    Publisher: London: Eyre (pr.)


    32) The history of the Worshipful Company of the Drapers of London, preceded by an introduction on London and her Gilds up to the close of the XVth century (1914)


    Author: Johnson, A. H. (Arthur Henry), 1845-1927

    Volume: 4

    Publisher: Oxford, Clarendon, Press


    33) Charter, orders, acts and ordinances, livery grant, &c; copy (1887)


    Author: London, Eng. Gold and Silver Wyre Drawers Company

    Publisher: London


    34) The history of the twelve great Livery Companies of London : principally compiled from their grants and records : with an historical essay, and accounts of each company, its origin, constitution, government dress, customs, halls, and trust estates and charities : including notices and illustrations of metropolitan trade and commerce, as originally concentrated in those societies ... : with attested copies and translations of the companies' charters (1836-1837 v. 1 1837)


    Author: Herbert, William, 1771-1851; Finch, Charles Arthur Wynne (bookplate)

    Volume: 2

    Publisher: London: Published by the author


    35) The aldermen of the city of London temp. Henry III -1908. With notes on the parliamentary representation of the city, the aldermen and the livery companies, the aldermanic veto, aldermanic baronets and knights, etc. (1908)


    Author: Beaven, Alfred B. (Alfred Beaven); City of London (England). Court of Common Council. Library Committee

    Publisher: London: E. Fisher & company, limited


    36) The City Livery companies and their corporate property (1885)


    Author: Sebastian, Lewis Boyd, 1852-1926

    Volume: Talbot collection of British pamphlets

    Publisher: London: Rivingtons, Waterloo Place


    37) Historical reminiscences of the city of London and its livery companies (1869)


    Author: Arundell, Thomas, 1817-1880

    Publisher: London: R. Bentley


    Note: the scan has repeated pages 36 & 37 at the beginning for some reason


    38) The city; an inquiry into the corporation, its livery companies, and the administration of their charities and endowments; (1877)


    Author: Gilbert, William, 1804-1890

    Publisher: London: Daldy, Isbister & Co.


    39) The livery companies of the city of London: their origin, character, development, and social and political importance (1892)


    Author: Hazlitt, William Carew, 1834-1913

    Publisher: London: S. Sonnenschein & co.; New York, Macmillan & co.



    40) The Gilds and Companies of London (1908)


    Author: Unwin, George, 1870-1925

    Publisher: London: Methuen & Co.



    41) The city companies of London and their good works; a record of their history, charity and treasure (1904)


    Author: Ditchfield, P. H. (Peter Hampson), 1854-1930

    Publisher: London Dent


    42) Vindication (1885)


    Author: London, Eng. Livery Companies

    Subject: Great Britain. London Livery Companies' Commission; London - Guilds

    Publisher: London, Printed by Gilbert and Rivington


    43) Reform of London government and of city guilds (1885)


    Author: Firth, Joseph Firth Bottomley, 1842-1889

    Publisher: London: S. Sonnenschein



    44) English gilds. The original ordinances of more than one hundred early English gilds: Together with þe olde vsages of þe cite of Wynchestre; the Ordinances of Worcester; the Office of the mayor of Bristol; and the Costomary of the manor of Tettenhall - Regis. From original mss. of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries (1870)


    Author: Smith, Joshua Toulmin, 1816-1869; Smith, Lucy Toulmin, 1838-1911; Brentano, Lujo, 1844-1931

    Publisher: London, Pub. for the Early English text society, by N. Trübner & co.



    45) The old guilds of England (1918)


    Author: Armitage, Frederick, 1863-

    Publisher: London: Weare


    46) The charters and letters patent granted by the Kings and Queens of England to the Clothworkers' Company (1881)


    Author: Clothmakers' Company, London; Great Britain. Sovereign

    Publisher: London


    47) A descriptive and historical account of the Guild of Saddlers of the City of London (1889)


    Author: Sherwell, John William; Sadlers' Company (London, England)
     
  17. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    PS: Nick if you get a copy it is worth it just for number 28. There is a Markwick Markham in there.If you dont find a copy you can have mine.

    IMG_4689.JPG
     
  18. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I'll ask him next time I see him. (Ian that is, I haven't spoken to Brian in ages)
     
  19. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Thats the advantage you have living in London, over the rest of us poor ex-pats.
     
  20. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I live in Dorset, but he sometimes goes to the BHI in Lyndhurst, and I sat next to him for Christmas dinner at West Dean. I only know him through that. I bought a clock from Brian once, he has premises at his home. He is retiring from clock dealing and the remaining stock will be sold at Bonhams this year.
     

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