Manufacturer of this Mechanical Movement?

CraigC

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I just bought this movement to use in a Grandfather clock I am building. It has no manufacture on it but it says "Made in USA" and "8710" and "A-415-015"

It has 3 weights and 4x8 gong hitters.

I am trying to figure out how to mount it. It obviously has to sit over a hole for the weights and pendulum, but how do I utilize the threaded bars? Is there a template for the board this will sit on?

IMG_1166.jpg IMG_1165.jpg IMG_1164.jpg IMG_1163.jpg
 
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Willie X

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It's not made in USA. It's made in Germany by Hermle, possibly a model 1061 and at least 33 years old.

Most likely a junker, removed from a pre1988 Seth Thomas GF clock and sold for cheap ...

Willie X
 
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Mike Mall

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Here's a cross reference for the movement - for a replacement. In the 4th column - also has the pendulum length listed.

Willie X is an expert - the movement is probably a junker.
If you look at the pivot holes - where the gear's axles spin in the plates, they should look clean. When there is any black grunge in those little holes it will need to be overhauled.

I don't know of a template for the seat board.
 
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CraigC

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Yes! I got it, It is a Hermle 1161-853. Thank you Willie! Now I just need to figure out how to mount it, pendulum length, then futz with it when it doesn't work, toss it, order a new set for $$

At least I have a plan!
 

CraigC

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Thank you Mike and Willie, Thank you so much for your fast responses. I am anxious to get started and your information is pivotal. Mike, your link took me right to the spot that confirmed what I need, thank you! I will be checking the pivot holes for gunk. I even figured out the weights! I'll have it set up in a jig and can see if it works tomorrow.

Edit: It looks clean. Really clean. IMG_1168.jpg IMG_1167 (1).jpg IMG_1167 (1).jpg
 
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Willie X

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Yes, that is a good plan.

The clock movement sits on a seat-board, about 3/4 x 4 1/2". It extends left/right over to vertical cheek boards, which are part of the case. Or cleats, which are screwed to the sides of the case. The seat-board can be loose and slide into a slotted cleat (German style) or sit over small pegs/pins. But on modern clocks, the seat-board is always screwed down to the above mentioned side supports.

The seat-board, for this movement, would have a horizontal slot about one inch wide that extends the full width of the movement, The ends of the slot are usually half circles.

The movement simply sits over this slot and is held down by two long screws that go through a small steel plate (abouit 5/8" x 1 3/4") and up to the threaded holes in the lower movement post.

Best thing would be to go to a furniture store, or antique shop, and have a look-see at several clocks. Pretty basic construction but not something you see every day ...

Good luck, Willie X
 
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CraigC

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Yes, I was at the shop today and took some pictures but I couldn't figure out how to use the screws. I found a link after you gave me the right words to search with. "Seat-Board" and found this:


and I see I need a set of Clock Movement Seat-Board Screws, which I can most likely pick up at the clock shop where I got the movement.

So when this is all set in my test jig tomorrow, once I hang the weights, will it just start on it's own? Do I need to initiate to get started?
 

wow

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You will need to put the weights on properly. The heaviest goes on the right (chime) side. The next heaviest goes on the strike train (left) usually, and the lightest(time) in the middle. You will need to start the pendulum manually and it must be “in beat” to run. Read the article above the clock repair page that is entitled “Beat setting 101” by Bangster and you will understand beat setting. It’s under “How to do it “ Good luck.
Will
 

shutterbug

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You need mounting screws and bars. The bars go under the seat board, and the screws go through them and into the threaded bars at the bottom of the clock. If you look, you might find a smaller set. ;)
 
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CraigC

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You will need to put the weights on properly. The heaviest goes on the right (chime) side. The next heaviest goes on the strike train (left) usually, and the lightest(time) in the middle. You will need to start the pendulum manually and it must be “in beat” to run. Read the article above the clock repair page that is entitled “Beat setting 101” by Bangster and you will understand beat setting. It’s under “How to do it “ Good luck.
Will
THANKS!!!
 

CraigC

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eEverything is in place, weights, pendulum, it just doesn't "run". Prime the pendulum and it goes back and forth a few times and stops. There must be a million things that it could be, I'm not sure where to start. Here is a link to a movie showing it not working.



 
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wow

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Swing the pendulum way to one side and let it go. That should set the beat. In the video the escape wheel is not turning. It may be too close to the pallets.
 

Willie X

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Check the cables, they have to be flat (a single layer from one side to the other) on the drum. The plastic cable retainer should always be loose when you wiggle it.

Next, check each arbor and make sure they are all free to turn and have end play. This is done with the weight off.

Willie X
 
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Mike Mall

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Do the hands advance normally when you push the minute hand? Can you set the time forward one hour?
The rack of teeth to the left of the hands doesn't look like it's up all the way - as it should be. Push it up gently.
Nice job fabricating the stand it's on.
 

CraigC

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Swing the pendulum way to one side and let it go. That should set the beat. In the video the escape wheel is not turning. It may be too close to the pallets.
I cant see a way to adjust the pallets distance from the escape wheel? It feels like there is no pressure on the escape wheel to help advance it, if that makes sense?
 

CraigC

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Check the cables, they have to be flat (a single layer from one side to the other) on the drum. The plastic cable retainer should always be loose when you wiggle it.

Next, check each arbor and make sure they are all free to turn and have end play. This is done with the weight off.

Willie X
THANKS

I saw the center wheel had a twist on the spool, so I unwound it and rewound it correctly, but unfortunately that did not fix the big issue. I checked each spool and they turn free, is that what is meant by the arbor? It seems like the pressure from the spool is not getting to the escape wheel, if that makes sense.
 

CraigC

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Do the hands advance normally when you push the minute hand? Can you set the time forward one hour?
The rack of teeth to the left of the hands doesn't look like it's up all the way - as it should be. Push it up gently.
Nice job fabricating the stand it's on.
Yes, the minute hand advances the hour hand. I can move the hour hand ahead, too. The rack of teeth don't seem too matter, at least so far in this problem.
 

Willie X

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Hold a steady forward pressure on the minute hand and see if it will tick.

Willie X
 

Willie X

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Something is stuck, or jamming, between the minute hand shaft and the E-wheel. There are only a few points to check ...

Might be a good idea to just remove the pallet arbor (two screws) until you can figure out where you're loosing power in the time train. The problem should be very obvious.

Willie X
 

Tbucket

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It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like the next wheel down from the EW is over to the right far enough to be almost against the EW. Also both of the next two down don't look like they are centered on their mating pinions. May be worth a look.....
 

shutterbug

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Try giving the pendulum a very big swing. It appears to be an automatic beat setting EW wheel so if it's just way out of beat that may help. I'm not real optimistic though
 

Mike Mall

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Yes, the minute hand advances the hour hand. I can move the hour hand ahead, too. The rack of teeth don't seem too matter, at least so far in this problem.
It's hard to see in the videos, but if that rack isn't fully up - the high point on the cam - mounted on the hour hand barrel, will jam against it between 12 and 1 o'clock position. That will stop the time train as well.

The wheels between the minute hand and the EW should all have end play, and move easily. The EW should be all that's holding the whole time gear train, starting at the weight all the way up, from spinning wildly.
 

CraigC

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Luckily I can return this movement. This thing started as an experiment to build a Floor Clock for $500. I never intended on repair of a movement that you guys have taken decades of experience to do well.

Here is my budget:

Rebuilt Movement $300 (tax & shipping included) Herman Jewelers, MI
Used Pendulum & weights $75 (Sands of Time Clock Shop New Port Richey, FL)
Wood: Cherry 26 board feet (wild guess) $200 Odd Wood Lumber Port Richey, FL
Plans "The Salisbury"from AREK'S MURRAY CLOCKS INC (Free! Thank You!!)
Dial $150?

Total: $675

Well, that doesn't add up.

I guess my original budget was possible until I started learning about clocks and what I really wanted.
 

Mike Mall

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Luckily I can return this movement. This thing started as an experiment to build a Floor Clock for $500. I never intended on repair of a movement that you guys have taken decades of experience to do well.

Here is my budget:

Rebuilt Movement $300 (tax & shipping included) Herman Jewelers, MI
Used Pendulum & weights $75 (Sands of Time Clock Shop New Port Richey, FL)
Wood: Cherry 26 board feet (wild guess) $200 Odd Wood Lumber Port Richey, FL
Plans "The Salisbury"from AREK'S MURRAY CLOCKS INC (Free! Thank You!!)
Dial $150?

Total: $675

Well, that doesn't add up.

I guess my original budget was possible until I started learning about clocks and what I really wanted.
You may be able to find a complete running clock online - Craigslist etc.- and still beat your budget after the wood. The clock market is a buyer's market right now. I used to live in the Tampa area, and bought several broken, and running, grandfather clocks off craigslist very cheap, as cheap as $20. Start watching the listings, all the parts are expensive individually.
 

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