Mantle Clock?

Discussion in 'Horological Misc' started by Clocks In The Grove, Feb 22, 2019.

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  1. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    I do not know what a mantle clock looks like. Is it a clock that has a cape attached to it. Does it have a cover that goes over it. Several Mantle clock are mentioned on this site and I wonder what they are.
    I know about shelf and MANTEL clocks, could I be missing something?
    I am not sure that a clock should be on a mantel if a fireplace is normal used for heat. The case may dry out and the movement may get smoked up. But they do look nice there.
    ..Bob..
     
  2. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    I think Mantel and Mantle are the same word spelt two different ways
     
  3. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    In English, a mantle is (as you say) a cloak or cape, or in more general terms a loose cover that does nor completely envelop the object of its attention. The word is also used figuratively to mean a position of leadership, as in "On the death of his father he assumed the mantle of leadership ...".

    However, that is not the derivation of the word mantel which is actually a tree - I believe it is a pine tree such as are used as Christmas trees. The word mantelpiece is a surround for a fireplace with a shelf at the top, and my assumption is that these were originally made from mantel trees. A mantel clock is (as you say) a clock of a size which stands on that mantel shelf, as opposed to the larger table clock which is designed to stand on a table ... and which also would need to have a respectably finished back as opposed to a mantel clock which often has a coarsely finished back because it is never seen!

    The use of mantle clock is simply a mis-spelling of mantel clock.
     
  4. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
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    Agreed, the word is misused. Mantel is the correct word. Not sure I have heard of the definition of Mantel that MaryR describes but it sounds good.

    Ron
     
  5. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    Thank you MartyR for your comments.
    Ron, I think that many people today do not know the meaning of the word mantle. It is used about twelve times in the Old Testament of the King James Version of the Bible.
    Here is a one quote:
    KJV 2 Kings. 2:13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
    Not a word we use today. I hope that those of us who deal in clocks will use the correct word for a clock that sits on a shelf.
    ..Bob..
     
  6. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    Perhaps.

    MANTLEMAN.jpg

    All American literature I've found spells it as 'Mantel'.
     
  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I have just finished proof-reading a catalog[ue] of very expensive antique clocks and, in every case, 'mantel' was written as 'mantle'.

    Many years ago I found an easy way to remember the difference between the two spellings was to envisage a local dress shop which had the words 'high-class gowns and mantles' on the front sign. I suppose these shops have mostly gone now, but that's how I got to know the right spellings.

    JTD
     
  8. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    So did you get your red pencil out? :D
     
  9. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Oh yes, in fact I wore it out and had to get another. There were all sorts of other delights, apart from Mantle/Mantel. How about Bulle for Boulle?!

    JTD
     
  10. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Yes i saw another person mention a mantle clock today.:(
     
  11. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Just to add to the confusion: In German a "Mantel" is a coat.

    Uhralt
     
  12. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Nothing is ever as simple as it seems to be
    I think we may have to accept both spellings as they are too widespread to correct now
     
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  13. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    In the English language, mantel and mantle are 2 different words:

    man·tel
    Dictionary result for mantel
    /ˈman(t)l/
    noun
    noun: mantel; plural noun: mantels; noun: mantle; plural noun: mantles
    1. a mantelpiece or mantelshelf.

    man·tle1
    Dictionary result for mantle
    /ˈman(t)l/
    noun
    noun: mantle; plural noun: mantles; noun: gas mantle; plural noun: gas mantles
    1. 1.
      a loose sleeveless cloak or shawl, worn especially by women.
      synonyms: cloak, cape, shawl, wrap, stole; More
      rarepelisse, pelerine;
      poncho, serape;
      archaicmantlet
      "a dark green velvet mantle"
      • a covering of a specified sort.
        "the houses were covered with a thick mantle of snow"
        synonyms: covering, layer, blanket, sheet, veil, curtain, canopy, cover, cloak, pall, shroud, screen, mask, cloud, overlay, envelope
        "houses covered in a thick mantle of snow"
      • Ornithology
        a bird's back, scapulars, and wing coverts, especially when of a distinctive color.
      • Zoology
        an outer or enclosing layer of tissue, especially (in mollusks, cirripedes, and brachiopods) a fold of skin enclosing the viscera and secreting the substance that produces the shell.
    2. 2.
      an important role or responsibility that passes from one person to another.
      "the second son has now assumed his father's mantle"
      synonyms: role, burden, onus, duty, responsibility, function, position, capacity, task, job
      "the mantle of leadership"
    3. 3.
      a fragile mesh cover fixed around a gas jet, kerosene wick, etc., to give an incandescent light when heated.
    4. 4.
      Geology
      the region of the earth's interior between the crust and the core, believed to consist of hot, dense silicate rocks (mainly peridotite).
      • the corresponding part of another planetary body.
        "the lunar mantle"
    verb
    verb: mantle; 3rd person present: mantles; past tense: mantled; past participle: mantled; gerund or present participle: mantling
    1. 1.
      literary
      clothe in or as if in a mantle; cloak or envelop.
      "heavy mists mantled the forested slopes"
      synonyms: cover, envelop, veil, cloak, curtain, shroud, swathe, wrap, blanket, screen, cloud, conceal, hide, disguise, mask, obscure, surround, overlay, clothe;
      literaryenshroud
      "heavy mists mantled the forest"
      • archaic
        (of blood) suffuse (the face).
        "a warm pink mounted to the girl's cheeks and mantled her brow"
      • archaic
        (of the face) glow with a blush.
        "her rich face mantling with emotion"
      • archaic
        (of a liquid) become covered with a head or froth.
    2. 2.
      (of a bird of prey on the ground or on a perch) spread the wings and tail so as to cover captured prey.
    The use of "mantle" for a clock that sits on a "mantel" or shelf is incorrect. I don't understand the confusion and because the incorrect use is widespread why that makes it acceptable.

    "But look, the morn, in russet mantle clad,
    Walks o'er the dew of yon high eastward hill."

    RM
     
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  14. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I agree 100% and you have put it far better than ever I could have.

    Thank you.

    JTD
     
  15. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    Ah, Les, when we stop correcting misuse of the language, we give up the language. That may not be "the end of the world as we know it", but personally I prefer to enjoy mutual understanding of language.

    In horological terms, we have a significant problem with the "true" meaning of the word "chronometer". The horological purists have adopted a precise definition of the features of a watch which are required to qualify it as a chronometer, but non-horologists have a more relaxed view of what the word means. That does produce a problem in that two groups of people cannot use the word safely because it means different things to those groups. That is a loss of communication.

    In the case under discussion, we're talking about just a spelling error, but it is an error and not just a matter of opinion, or an optional usage. If a non-English speaker were to try to translate the term "mantle clock" he would be totally bemused, as would an inexpert English speaker, and again that would be a loss of communication.
     
  16. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Yes, yes, yes! Very well said and lucidly put.

    JTD
     
  17. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Ah finks we gotta stop with all them spelin misteaks. Hits 'orrible!

    But, if I put a mantle on the mantel, and then a clock on the mantle, is the clock also on the mantel or just on the mantle? And don't forget Mickey Mantle. If Mantle sat on the mantle on the mantel, and if Mantle was holding a clock, would that be a Mantle clock, a mantle clock, or a mantel clock? Or possibly just Mantle's clock? I think about these things, and that explains why my head always hurts.:mallet:
     
  18. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    I thought, if two people commented on this thread I would know I was not the only person who wanted the word to be spelled correctly for a shelf clock. Thank you for more than two ireplies.
    It is Sunday so it is time to wind my mantel clocks.
    ..Bob..
     
  19. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    You may have the answer to the problem there
    If you can get the term "Shelf Clock" widely adopted it would solve the problem
     
  20. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Wear a mantle. It's chile.

    RM
     
  21. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    Les, I agree, thanks for the input.
    ..Bob..
     
  22. Clocks In The Grove

    Clocks In The Grove Registered User
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    RM, I will wrap myself in my mantle and fly off to clock land where it is warm and not 'chile'.
    ..Bob..
     
  23. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Do yo mean Chilly?
    Chile is a South American country
    There are also two spellings, Chilli and Chili for the sauce
     
  24. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    It's a joke.

    RM
     
  25. Time After Time

    Time After Time Registered User
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    There are regular clocks...
    :emoji_clock::emoji_alarm_clock::emoji_watch:

    but then this happens

    "Look on the Mantle, er, Mantel..ah Over there!"....It's a bird, it's a plane...no, it's

    original-1834707-1.jpg
     
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  26. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I am glad this posting came up, two words that do not have similar meanings.Nice to see humour in this thread too.
     
  27. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    I have a confession. I've misspelled words. Furthermore, my grammar is average at best. Shame!:(
     

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